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What are the martial markings on the current 870's with the composite stock and fore end? A friend of mine works in a AF armory and he said they just received 4 racks of 870's with dark gray stocks and fore ends. When did they start using the composite stocks. He is on leave now.
What I could find out the USAF is using the 870 MCS my friend told me he didn't see any markings on the guns other then the factory markings.
Same with the Canadian guns...nothing special reported. Let me get one more man involved here, he may have info...wait, out...
Speaking to Canadian Service shotguns, we had no additional military stampings, proofs, or identification markings, they were only marked with Remington roll marks and typical serial numbers.
During my time (subject to change with modernization) we had the Remington 870P (Police) parkerized finish with composite stocks. 12 guage, 3" chambers, cylinder bore, bead sight. barrels at 18" if memory serves. Two butt stocks were offered, the typical fixed composite, and the over top steel folder with pistol grip.
Identifying a former service one in the future will be difficult because only the serial number records will tell you if was a CF gun, but due to currently policy it should be fairly easy as all former CF weapons are to be destroyed and not sold out of service.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bc86353b-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...m870law4-1.jpg
Additional remarks.
The LOP was too long for anyone under 6'2" to shoot properly with body armour on, personally I couldn't even shoulder the weapon while wearing plates, well I could, but then I couldn't reach the pump with the supporting hand, it looked comical I must say...
The folding steel stock was the worst thing I have ever tried to shoot with, I would rather be hit in the head with an entrenching tool than do another "Jungle Lane" range with one of those.
There was a great deal of mistrust of these shotguns, first because of a warning officially issued around 2004 that stated our shotguns were found to discharge if at the ready (shell chambered) and the weapon suffered a short fall (drop) onto the butt, secondly due to lacking a removable magazine the positive clearing of the weapon became different than most weapons, which lead to a run of ND's among less diligent soldiers unaccustomed to shotguns in their former civilian life.
During my tour to Afghanistan in 2006 our shotguns were issued with #7 birdshot high brass loads, since there were few upland game birds in the desert, this ammunition became a running mockery of the supply system among knowledgeable shotgunners.
Shotguns did not really see widespread service, they were issued during special situations and during operations generally rode inside the LAV 3 and were used to provide a measure of "seriousness" to leaders meetings (Shura) after Captain Greene was nearly killed with an axe during one these kinds of meetings.
I will find some period photos from my collection to share.
I see from the internet, different types of shotguns have entered service, some are 870P with extended tubes, sights, or flashlight pumps, the JTF2 apparently has a Benelli but that is outside my immediate scope of knowledge.
Sad for us that we never have focused on usability from the outset. There are collapsible stocks that go right on for immediate use. Here's one example...
It's like the C7 with the solid butt, too long for the later use. No forethought whatsoever.
The Remington 870 MCS Modular Combat Shotgun has a 10"barrel a 14"barrel and a 18"barrel also comes with a fixed butt stock a collapsible butt stock and a pistol grip in which the butt stocks slides into a dovetail and held in place by a pin which makes for a quick and easy stock change
Couple of photos of CF Remington 870P shotguns in Afghanistan 2006, from my personal archives:
Attachment 76761Attachment 76762
I guess a shotgun would be quite useful in CQB events, but not so much on the Kipling-esque "Afghanistan's Plains".
I spotted the knee protectors in the first pic, so, is that a "displaced" kneepad I see in the second pic?
Looking at that terrain, it should be obvious that knee and elbow pads are essential accessories for combat in the giant rock-garden that is Afghanistan.
Probably also useful for when dealing with the "bureaucracy".
Yes it is, and they're something we needed 40+ years ago. I'd have less knee problems now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
Sharp eye Bruce, we finally, and I mean "finally!" were issued knee and elbow protection in 2005, there were two variations. The CADPAT green ones shown in the first photo man on the left, and off the shelf pieces by "Hatch" worn by the man on the right. I got a full set of Hatch (knee and elbow) issued to match the set I had been wearing for years. I never got the CADPAT ones for some reason, perhaps I declined to go to get issued those ones, cannot recall. There were varying opinions about which ones were best, but most guys, including me, found the CADPAT ones to be bulky and more restrictive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
In the second photo you will notice that Cpl. M (Still serving, a Sergeant now.) has only one and it is rotated to the ankle, this was a common practice, in an effort to reduce weight and bulk, only the dominant knee pad was worn, and when not in immediate use was rotated to the side and placed by the ankle, in the "travel position" as wearing such pads did cut off blood flow on long marches. The CADPAT pads could not be used in this way, they were constructed more like sports equipment, hockey gear comes to mind.
Almost no one wore the elbow pads during my time, they weren't worth the weight and bulk, and the majority of knee pad use was seen during tactical pauses when patrolling (take a knee and cover the arcs) or when firing from the kneeling position. Kneeling on rocky Afghan soil without pads, given our packed loads at times would feel like dropping a knee into a box of construction nails.
As any current or retired Infantry Soldier reading is nodding sagely, there is good reason why every Infantryman has ruined knees, feet, and back, and generally survives on Ibuprofen. The stuff you don't worry about when you are 18 sure does catch up when you get just a few years older.
A comment about the standard Remington folding metal stock for 870 models... Anyone that I knew in police service down here in paradise (south Florida 1973-1995 -during the height of the party... ) rarely ever fired a folding stock model more than once or twice.. You could tell at the range which guys had used them with the folding stock extended, since most of them needed a bandaid or two in the facial area afterwards. Most of us far preferred the standard old wooden stock models, period. That's what I carried to any hot calls during my career. Those old folding stock models can be found today fairly regularly at auctions (not the gun so much as just the stock....). That basic riot configured wooden stock model would still be my choice for close quarters work since they're a one shot fight ender...
Thats some interesting first hand accounts. Do you mind if I use some of that info and you pics on my blog? It's in the sig line. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentryduty
You can certainly quote my observations. Some of the photos are sourced from google though and I own no rights to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesm44
thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentryduty
I think I have a photo or two kicking around from my deployment that could be provided. PM me and we can talk further.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesm44
Enough been said about Remington 870 special purpose magnum, but the most surprising thing to me about this discussion is that I have one that my grandad left over. I have never seen or heard it can have any folded handle. Wait for a second, I was wondering if someone can tell me of any top 5 best gun oil without an odor?
Why did you come to this old thread for that? Sounds like Phishing to me. DON'T open that link!
Mossberg is military issue, not Remington .
In past Remington supplied scads of shotguns. This thread is old like the others you're opening up fresh...that's why we don't...Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep