Canada post screw up and need for help

Hi all,

Just wanted start with as I am writing this I am furious. I recently sold my M91 Infantry Rifle made in 1926 at Tula on a 1898 Tula receiver for the sum of 350$.

I shipped the rifle off by Canada Post with a significant amount of protection (wrapped in bubble wrap, well taped etc.) and they managed to destroy the stock along the way.

Below is the photos the buyer sent me of the damage, as you can see by the photos the rifle was well protected, and whoever broke it really managed to do a number to it (only pure incompetency could cause that).

Now I am going to be putting in a claim with Canada Post over it, but in the mean while what are some possible solutions to the problem? The rest of the gun appears to be fine (they haven't told me of any other issues) so it should only be a matter of replacing the stock, except for the fact that M91 Infantry rifle stocks aren't available.

How would you all handle this? This is the first time I have ever run into this situation, and I am at a loss as what to do. The funds involved are fairly small (350$ shipped, which worked out to about 300$ for the rifle after shipping costs were out), and from what I can tell most of the rifle is intact. Do I refund approximately what it would cost to buy a new stock if one came up for sale? Overall this has me pretty rattled, as I did all I could (except buy extra insurance) and they still screwed it up.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...k0yvtlc9-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uuy5hcjq-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d9nghff7-1.jpg

I don't even think our stock gurus here could save that one, it sounds a bit off but did you take pictures of it when as you packed it (I learnt this like you did with an item not a rifle).
There is never a small amount of money no matter where you come from the damn stuff is bl**dy hard enough to earn without drain piping it.
You do not have to refund anything whatsoever because you took what you thought was adequate packing and protection, paid the amount due and posted it therefore your care and responsibility ceased there and then it is then Canada posts problem to ensure the goods arrive in a timely manner and intact which obviously the latter did not happen.:red face::mad:

What to do the ball is in Canada posts corner was it a tracked package (Registered post) as that will help finding out who took what and where may even be able to tie it down to an individual driver as they have a bar code that needs to be scanned and you sign for it.
Is the new owner desperate to shoot it as they may have to buy another stock for it and further more also claim for the work a gunsmith is going to have to do to fit the stock it may just take time but I would not forge ahead yet untill you see what the postal insurance is going to do.
If you forge ahead and he buys a new stock and gets it fitted they may say oh well its fixed its not so desperate now we will drag on and they will lose interest, make as much noise about it as possible (but do not inflame the situation making valueless statements) get in touch with the NRA or your congressmen carry on about how this has affected the other person and yourself yadda yadda.
But keep your cool keep all e mails and correspondence if they ring you tell them your going to record the conversation, above all do not let them bully you I know what that is like being bullied by lawyers in my compensation payout they made me feel less than human I can tell you after 14 months injured classed as 13% TPI and out of a job it was not a happy time in my life....

Postscript ~ can the new owner see any impact damage on the exterior box or in the ends it may have been dropped see if they can see anything take pics.

An opinion. That kind of damage isn't an accident. An expert opinion as to the force required to cause such damage could help your claim.

Looks like it's gone onto a conveyor belt as it's gone through a 90 degree turn. The conveyor ain't going to stop so it just chews up whatever is on there. Happened to sons snow board which was a similar length and doubly well packed/wrapped.

tradeexcanada

tradeex may have a stock for you. they're definitely worth a phone call

Total loss. It's not just cracked, the thing exploded. All the King's men can't put Humpty Dumpty together again.
#1 it should have been insured.
#2 Sorry, that is not well protected. Protected from scratches yes, but not blunt force trauma. For that attach a rifle/stock to a length of 2 by 4.
Might cost more, but hey......

Mail shouldn't have to be protected to that extent. Blunt force trauma shouldn't be happening especially to the extent that would have been required to break the rifle stock (and that was one thick rifle stock). Having seen pictures of the box, it was literally broken open then taped up by Canada Post.

There is insurance in the amount of 100$ for every parcel from Canada Post. I will fight for the full amount of the rifle for the simple reason I paid them to provide a service, which they failed to provide. It is not my responsibility to ensure they take care of the goods they ship, it is theirs.

Thanks for the Tradeex link, I will be doing some calling around to see what is out there. I will be sure to keep you all updated as this progresses.

Well the options I have so far is to try and replace the stock (very difficult as M91 Infantry rifle stock seem to be the only one not available). To refund the purchaser the approximate amount to buy a new stock (150$ or so). Or to have them return it to me on there own dime, and I will refund them the amount of the rifle.

Any other alternatives would be nice to hear. I am trying to do right for both parties, the reality is it is just a crappy situation.

Edited to add: the result is that the rifle will be returned for a refund once Canada Post is done its claim.

No, it shouldn't have to be but must be because this happens all the time, that is the reality. What keeps me busy are whrist cracks, shipping damage, duffle cuts in that order. They hire drunken monkeys and I'm convinced to pass the time they stomp on packages between smoke breaks.

I don't know what I'd say. It's Canada Posts damage so I would go after them for sure. I think it is also a learning experience to insure things of this nature. It is a shame that it's an M91. I just can't imagine a shipper doing this kind of damage and not being held responsible for it. "Just tape it up Joe, no one will notice."

I really question how you do that much damage, oh well life lesson there. Recently I have been getting screwed over a fair bit in my personal life for helping others out, and this is just the icing on the cake. Lots of lessons learned in the last couple days, going to be a interesting couple weeks as I deal with all the fall out from them.

Are the customers OK with just getting a replacement stock? I doubt you'll get better than the $100 from Can Post. They just don't care and will let you fight at your own dime.

The result is I will be having the rifle shipped back to me. They are paying the return shipping, and I am refunding them their 350$.

Whenever I sell a rifle I make it so they have a 3 day inspection period where if they are not satisfied they can have their money returned, provided they pay return shipping (I always pay shipping there). They opted to return it, and I will refund them. Overall I expect this to put me out at least 200$, but that is life. I guess I will have to see if I can locate another stock to either resell the rifle with a replacement stock or if I will just sell it as a parts rifle.

That really is rotton luck, I would definitely want to see the box, I wouldn't be surprised if it had been driven over!

Life's just crap sometimes, all you can do is write a good letter with supporting pictures to Canada Post, make it clear you won't be fobbed off and want compensation for their appalling service, then have a few beers and put it down to experience...

That's total bullsh*t of the highest order I can tell you and worth a stoush, this having to fight them on you own dime is another high order bullsh*t session, it is how they operate a huge company or govt owned whatever and the small man gets shafted through temerity and not willing to fight for what is right for them selves.
It has cost you as you just ended up with a totally f*cked rifle when in good faith you packed it and posted it was Canada posts inept handling of that package, what did they do stomp on it for all we know could have been a firearm hater if it was labelled as such nope I reckon its worth a fight even if the other non owner now has not the guts for it you need to have a crack at them.
Some lawyers offer free advice on courses of action do you guys have consumer protection there, to me its black and white they stuffed up not you & not the new owner I am sorry your having a tough go of it EL17 at present and this is probably not helping the issue with Can post but you have rites like anyone of us no matter what country your at umm except Russia or N.Korea and oops better stop there............................!

I would stick it up them place an ad in the paper with pictures get onto a paper and tell them your story its all about a fair go for the small man.

I hope things pan out for you bloke and you have my best wishes for the future if your getting screwed over by helping people out then they are not worth the dirt under a snakes belly in a wheel rut cut all ties and let the wheel of life look after them as trust me it will come a' calling on them as a catch up from what they did to you. Keep the chin up and get stuck into them.

Some shippers just don't give a damn. Several years ago I was flying home from the Easter Calgary gun show, I checked a Henry rifle and 1866 Winchester in at the baggage counter where the girls inspected the rifles before I sealed and locked the hard case, they plastered the case with fragile stickers after which the case went on the conveyor and out to the plane We boarded the aircraft and took our seats aft of the wing and above the cargo door. Sitting by the window I had a birds eye view of the loading. I saw my case coming out on the cart and watched in horror as a baggage handler with several pounds of nuts bolts and assorted hardware in his lips and ears grab the fragile marked case and throw it about ten feet, I wanted to get off the plane and choke the inconsiderate a hole but instead had to worry all the way home that something was most likely busted. Thankfully all was in order but I learned a valuable lesson, these people just don't give a crap1

Here is a photo of the box for those interested. I am still really impressed at how badly they can screw up.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8c4zdlf3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lwwnn2ly-1.jpg

So I see it has been badly impacted caught whatever also a sign notice down the bottom so it was registered post its your call EL17 but if you go after them it may save another person some grief with Canada post upgrading how they treat people postal parcels etc.

I shipped my 1928 Thompson to Quebec a few years ago and went whole hog by buying a full size hard case, plastic of course, and a roll of bubble wrap. Stripped the gun into it's butt and gun and drum and then wrapped with bubble wrap until it hardly fit. Taping completely and then wrapping it, I addressed and shipped. I insured it for the full value, which cost me $200 after postage and insurance. If it was thrown in the river, it would have floated there. They could have drug it and it would make it. If not, I'd have even paid for the case and postage. I didn't trust them one bit.

Of course it made it unmarked. That was all I wanted in the first place. I do have stories the other side though...like this. A Walther PP that disappeared in the mail... More...

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

So I see it has been badly impacted caught whatever also a sign notice down the bottom so it was registered post its your call EL17 but if you go after them it may save another person some grief with Canada post upgrading how they treat people postal parcels etc.

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Problem is there isn't really much of a alternative in Canada. That and since they are a Crown Corporation they can get away with a lot more than the average company. I will try to get as much out of them as possible, but I really don't expect it to go to far. I have heard of similar horror stories, or even as BAR said firearms simply disappearing in the mail.

Thing about life EL17 you will never know until you have a crack at them just do not let them bully you, some of those people with neon sun tans would not have a clue what goes on they probably all got degrees and no first hand experience there is a vast void from a person that has come from the lowest position up the ladder and the other chap who comes straight from college. When the sh*t hits the fan I know who will control the situation better and its not the tosser with 15 degrees and a nice white shirt.........

OP: looks like one of the commies/antis employed by CPC swung the upper end of the butt against the ground, smashing it off. Does the heel of the butt or the packaging show impact damage there?

Eaglelord: You're being a good guy to refund the buyer given that he had the option (and responsibility) to ask for full insurance coverage (around $2.50/$100.00). This whole affair worries me as I've had nothing but excellent results shipping with Canada Post and it's somewhat hard to believe that they would proceed with normal delivery of a parcel that must have been obviously very badly damaged. I often tend to ignore extra insurance on relatively inexpensive rifles but no more- I just bought a fairly cheap Snider this morning and I asked for full value insurance from the seller. Hope you can find another well aged looking stock for that rifle but it will be tough. Regards.

Rudolph

PS: In future sales I think I will either demand the buyer pay for adequate insurance or accept that they own the rifle the moment it goes to the post office.

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Originally Posted by Ridolpho

either demand the buyer pay for adequate insurance or accept that they own the rifle

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I had occasion to send a pre war LL M1 to London by Canada Post a few years back now and was certain it would go bed. The buyer refused to pay insurance and stated it would be fine and safe. I conceded and sent it off, stating that it was at his peril. He agreed...of course it made it without a scratch, thankfully. It remains to be seen what would have happened otherwise. I make certain to have an acknowledgement of their responsibility before shipping without insurance here.

Well I have been thinking about what I am going to do. I might just try my hand at making a stock for it, and see if I can configure the rifle in a appeasing manner for myself. Thinking brass butt-plate, barrel bands, and such but I don't know. Maybe sell it off as a parts gun. We will have to see.

As I recall, an L42 in the chest no less was destroyed in a similar fashion by NZ post on arrival in NZ by the conveyor belt system. It was on its way to Invercargill. They paid up in full.

That would have been devastating for the new owner to lose that rifle and kit, its not that you can just pop off to the corner store and buy a new one.

It is a well known yet sad fact of life that some/a few people who work at the sharp end of the parcel/package delivery business do, on occasions stand on packages and throw packages with all their might. I have personally witnessed this happening when parcel delivery lorries have turned up at work, the driver has gone into the back of the lorry then stood on parcels/packages in order to help him reach the package that he wanted. :eek: I have also witness, on occasions, seeing drivers trowing packages as hard as he can in the back of the lorry to move them out the way. :yikes: I could have gone over and politely asked him "please would would you kindly handle people's parcels and packages with more care by not standing on them or throwing them" but I considered that I would most likely get a 2 word response, the second word being "off".

In loading trucks or containers(done a few 100 times being a delivery dispatch driver for Metroof in Bunbury) prudence dictates the furthermost deliveries or last ones off go to the front of the tray and the first ones to the rear and fragile items are so placed they are not in danger of getting smashed it is not rocket science though some dispatch drivers well they are not the brightest bulb in the packet.........

One driver even forgot to shut the back door of his van properly, as he drove down the road the inevitable happened, the door swung open and a trail of packages/parcels was deposited along the highway. It sounds highly amusing but not if you happened to be expecting one of the packages that had been ejected out of the back of the van.

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

I might just try my hand at making a stock for it

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You should be able to find a cast off, especially here. Since there are guys love them as a hunting rifle and they make a poly stock, there should be full length stocks about. Try CGN and see?

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

You should be able to find a cast off, especially here. Since there are guys love them as a hunting rifle and they make a poly stock, there should be full length stocks about. Try CGN and see?

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I might give that a shot, the only issue is the M91 stock is actually the only stock that is hard to find. I can even find M39 and M28/30 stocks but M91 Infantry seems to have dried up.

Do you have photos of the package as it arrived but unopened? It would be essential to record the condition of the box prior to opening if any damage or repair to the packaging is evident.
I would not open anything without recording external damage first.
If all you've got are photo's of a broken rifle; who's to say the guy's wife didn't bust him over the head with it when she found out he bought another one!

Canada post has refused to refund me anything but the initial expenses of the shipping. I am very angry at the moment, time to make some noise.

Edited to add: after calling them again I now got the number for the Ombudsman to make a complaint there to see if they will change the state of the claim. We shall wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

time to make some noise.

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I've heard delivery truck tires make a Pffffffffffffff sound when the side wall is cut. :madsmile:

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

Canada post has refused to refund me anything but the initial expenses of the shipping. I am very angry at the moment, time to make some noise.

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I think that it may be worth writing a letter to someone in authority in Canada Post first and you could say that you are considering getting the ombudsman involved. With something like this you need to keep a record of all communication that you have with Canada Post; speaking on the phone is not so good for this reason. The threat of getting the ombudsman involved may be enough to resolve the matter.

Another option is to threaten to get the press involved in the matter such as a television consumer watchdog programme, if you have such a programme in Canada.

Unfortunately if you shipped with just the standard $100.00 insurance that is all Canada Post will pay. Although I have never needed to claim I always insure for the full amount. Peace of mind for me and the buyer. If the $2.35 per $100.00 is too onerous on you ,make it a condition of the sale.

One option that is always available if the Ombudsman rejects the claim is small claims court. I might just win out of the fact it would cost more for them to send a lawyer to represent Canada Post than it would cost just to pay me my money.

Problem with small claims is once you win, they still don't have to pay. The judge finds for you and they stiff you...I know this for a fact. I'm hoping you find a stock on CGN, even if just a representative...maybe there's one here someplace? Try a WTB?

Yep, if the same her applies to Canada post, you STILL loose out Jim (thread 39) I sent £100 or so of old dinky toys to someone. Not in, so 'held for you at the post office' card left in letter box. He goes to collect 3 days later (Monday) and parcel is missing. I claim, but no certificate of posting means NO compensation in spite of the '.....its waiting for you.....' card. I appeal to ombudsman who agrees and states that they should pay. Post office stick to letter of the rules and refuse. I OVER insure everything now and endorse the cert of posting ''gold Rolex/Omega to xxxxx'. Hasn't worked yet............ but it WILL one day.

I would still write a carefully worded letter to the management of Canada Post first, threatening to get the Ombudsman involved, before you actually do so. It's amazing what a carefully worded letter can achieve sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

I would still write a carefully worded letter to the management of Canada Post first, threatening to get the Ombudsman involved, before you actually do so. It's amazing what a carefully worded letter can achieve sometimes.

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It was the Canada Post manager that told me to involve them as they could 'do nothing' to change the claim results. We will see what happens I am pretty disappointed as this is bureaucracy at its finest.

I have put up a WTB on the EE on CGN, but I doubt I will find any hits.

Try to stay positive, it is disappointing for you but I'm sure your fellow Millserp members will do their best to try to help find replacement parts. One would expect Canada Post to take "reasonable care" of items in it's care during transit, clearly this hasn't happened in this instance.

I don't doubt that, collectors tend to be pretty generous with knowledge and assistance when it is needed (I know there has been several times I have sold a rifle to others for the price I paid, even though I could have made a large profit off it). In any case I just won a bid for a French M1886 Bayonet, so things are looking up. I will be sure to share it one I have it.

You are massively messing with my basic math skills. If the rifle is worth $350 and you get $350 out of Canada Post you have broke even, not taken a loss. In the long run you are ahead as you still have a parts rifle that is worth possibly $200. Now if you have additional costs in going after Canada Post, that's a different matter.

Your right, I had to draw a picture, and I saw where I messed up on my math (got a bit jumbled in my head). Going to remove all reference to that wrong math to prevent confusion and embarrassment :D