Mr. Laidler - your single-shot SA80 experience in 1993

A friend was clearing out some of his old firearms magazines (the printed kind) and never one to turn away reading materials about firearms, I took them off his hands.

In the Dec. 1993 issue of Guns Review is an article entitled "PR '93 - The 14th National Practical Rifle Championship", and in that article is a picture of Mr. Laidler on the line over a caption saying "Peter Laidler shooting a single shot version of the SA80/LSW now available from Canada.' (see photo and cutline below). I have not heard of said Canadian-production rifle and would be very curious to hear more about the rifle, and your impressions of it, sir.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../03/SA80-1.jpg

Was one of that version not created for the cadet force in UK?

Guy in the background has a SA80 ..
.1993 must have been a straight pull ( single shot )also

I think there may be some confusion in the article, I've a feeling some LSWs went to Canada for civilian sale and some were used in films such as Battlestar Galactica but I've never heard of any Canadian built guns. I don't remember any mention in the book The Last Enfield.

I think a number of both the L85 and L86 were built for the North American civilian market by Enfield in semi auto, however when such things were restricted in Canada (and banned from US import) they came back to the UK... Some were deactivated, some sold on and exported.

I am sure Peter has the full lowdown on this doomed endevour...

actually, I think that might be behind with my cadet version, we were in the same club

I recall paid £600 for it had to drive to bangor in wales to get it, wish I still had that

It was quite a nice rifle but not a comp rifle by any stretch of the imagination and certainly not an accurate long range rifle as I recall, even with the long barrel. There were 3 different MPI's too that didn't help!!!!!!! While the sight was good, as a sight, the range scale didn't equate to either yards or metres as we understand them!!!!!!!! So heaven only knows how users managed! The full story of the commercial ones has been fully told in The Last Enfield. I think that the bloke behind has a UK straight-pull version because it doesn't have a flash eliminator. They had to add the f/e to the export straight-pulls to make the barrel length legal. Yep......... I don't understand it either because while the barrel length is extended by 1" or so, the rifle is STILL short! This was its downfall as I understood it and as a result bull-pups couldn't be accommodated within some strange legislation so they were outlawed. I notice that they've all got modified cocking handles to eliminate the absurd, ridiculous, over complicated, totally unnecessary cranked lever originally put there by Enfield - for reasons no one has yet fathomed out

By coincidence I have just purchased a straight run of 180 copies of Guns Review from 1981 to 1995 inclusive, I must look out that article when I go pick them up on Friday! :)

Canadian gun laws are much more difficult than the UK's to fathom.

A Steyr Aug was used in a security van holdup in Canada, and that was supposedly why it led to bullpups being added to the already vast list of prohibited firearms in Canada.

As has been said, no SA80 variants were ever manufactured in Canada, a number were exported from the UK to Canada, but were sent back when the bullpup was added to the list of prohibited firearms.

The legislation is below, bullpups are covered in Section 4 (2).

There is also a barrel minimum length restriction of 470mm in the Canadian legislation, but when the bullpup ban came in it overrode any barrel issues - bullpups were banned regardless of barrel length.


Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted

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Originally Posted by David TS

A Steyr Aug was used in a security van holdup in Canada, and that was supposedly why it led to bullpups being added to the already vast list of prohibited firearms in Canada.

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That's not true, just a story. There's no sense to their rules, they're written by bureaucrats that have no firearms knowledge. They went through a firearms journal and chose everything that looked dangerous or black in color.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

That's not true, just a story. There's no sense to their rules, they're written by bureaucrats that have no firearms knowledge. They went through a firearms journal and chose everything that looked dangerous or black in color.

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Jim

It's certainly true there WAS a security van holdup (Brinks Mat, North Hill Mall Calgary, March 20, 1998, as you probably know), but I appreciate your input as a local, and take your point that the two issues aren't linked.

Regards

David

Further, all bullpup's are not banned, just a prescrbed list of names and bullpup conversion stocks for convential rifles.

The Type-97NSR, Tavor TAR-21, and Keltec RFB rifles are common, non-restricted bullpup rifles in Canada.

By definition of bullpup, a firearm with action behind the trigger, even the Sub-2000 and Browning Buck Mark Rifle are technically bullpups.

Each of those are legal in Canada as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David TS

there WAS a security van holdup (Brinks Mat, North Hill Mall Calgary, March 20, 1998,

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That was a guy that was on one my Small Arms Instructor's courses engineered that. We were a bit surprised... As mentioned, the Tavor is very widely owned.

There's been lots of holdups, they don't drive the firearms laws. I have to stop there though, Badger will whack me.

If a firearm is on the Canadian banned/prohibitive list can it legally be owned in Canada in deactivated form or are there some types/makes that can't even be owned in deactivated form?

Deactivated firearms, if done to the standard are considered non-firearms like any other similar weighted item of metal.

That standard seems to evolve from time to time but is no where near as rigorous as proofing like the UK.

Of course if the deact were used in a criminal manner it stands to reason a suspect might be charged as though it were a live gun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

a firearm is on the Canadian banned/prohibitive list can it legally be owned in Canada

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Those are called prohibs and are a special class of legally owned firearms, live, on a licence. Machine guns, converted firearms, short barreled or caliber specific handguns, special small size converted autos...on and on... All quite legal if you have that class as a grandfathered owner.

Ok thanks, Jim.

Unfortunately the E.U. have got "involved" over here but hopefully that won't always be the case.