"New in the wrap" Bren mags and tin.

I thought that some members may be interested to see a few pictures of this Bren mag tin and contents which I picked up a couple of years ago at a show; some of the mags haven't even been unwrapped. The unwrapped mags still look new and unused, however. I had got the tin out today because I knew there was at least one mag unwrapped and I have just purchased a wrapped mag this week to replace an unwrapped one. When I opened the tin I realised that I will need another 4 wrapped mags to get a "full house". I don't know if the tin is refurbished or was brand new when it was filled with the MK3 mags at Woolwich.

Consider that each Bren was issued with 24 (+1 in the chest)* magazines plus 7 in bulk for each gun as replacements held in Ordnance as spares. The spares were replaced by orders placed monthly to the factories. The totals were colossal
* there were exceptions to this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The totals were colossal

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Plus the bits and pieces that were accumulated around your shop. Followers and distance plates, springs and bases...the odd body...

It's very rare to find the mags still in the wrappers on the surplus market today though and I was lucky to see this tin at the end of the day, as well.

When the Brens were finally withdrawn, the longest serving bit of kit in the British Army incidentally, I went to a large salvage depot in Hampshire to see whether there was anything amongst the kit there that we wanted before it was sent for what was called 'certified destruction'. There were probably about a thousand - or thousands - of assorted Bren and L4 magazines, boxes, accessories, cleaning kits , second barrels etc etc etc. Most like new as towards the end they were rarely used............

The irony is that now, with the modern spec, you can't even insert an un-cut magazine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The irony is that now, with the modern spec, you can't even insert an un-cut magazine.

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Part of the "legislation" states something on the lines of , A deactivated firearm not conforming to the new specification can only be sold/ transferred to a none EU country, so in affect when we pull out we will be free....... to trade our old specs (for a while).

I copied and pasted the following from the HMVF,



"So this has now been enacted, section 128 is the bit that deals with
deactivated firearms:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on/128/enacted

If you read through that it's not entirely clear what it means. Subsection
4(c) effectively makes it an offence to transfer a deac that isn't done to
the current spec., and by "current spec." I mean the June 13th, 2016 Home
Office spec. This is a different spec. to the April 2016 spec., which is
the EU spec. So taken as a whole, what it basically says is, it's illegal
to sell or gift a deactivated firearm inside the EU, unless it's done to the
current British spec.


Which makes no sense, because the British spec. is not the EU spec. They're
similar but there are differences.


The Home Office have attempted to give me clarification and their
clarification is very vague. What they appear to be saying is this: if the
UK leaves the EU, then the section becomes meaningless, because then all
transfers would be outside the EU and thus the section doesn't apply. If
the UK stays in the EU, they're going to try and get the European Commission
to adopt the current UK spec. and thus the two specifications will be the
same, and then they're going to apply for the earlier 2010 spec. to also be
recognised as sufficient so those can be transferred as well.


The reason they're being vague in my opinion is because (a) they came up
with their spec. prior to the referendum thus this whole thing has gotten
muddled as they didn't expect a "leave" vote and (b) they don't want to
admit they now have a contingency plan for either event.


What is noticeable to me is they appear to have no intention of applying for
any spec. prior to 2010 to be recognised as sufficient. But that only
matters if the UK stays in the EU.


Anyway the key point is that up until the UK leaving the EU, it's illegal to
sell or gift any deactivated firearm unless it's done to the current spec. -
once the section comes into force and the Home Office tells me that will be
in "the next couple of months" (but it's already illegal under European law
if the deac. is prior to April 2016). Note they've made it into an
indictable offence, so you can get 5 years in prison for violating it,
unlike with realistic imitation firearms where the maximum penalty is only
51 weeks".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

thousands - of assorted Bren and L4 magazines, boxes, accessories, cleaning kits , second barrels etc etc etc. Most like new as towards the end they were rarely used........

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Do you know of any dealers selling MK3 Bren mags still in the wrapper, at affordable prices, then Peter? I've seen plenty of second hand mags for sale but I wasn't aware that ones still in the wrapper are in plentiful supply. I would be interested to hear of any dealers that have them for sale because I need another 4 to make up a tin full.


bigduke, I realise that you don't own a crystal ball but in your opinion, once we have left the E.U., do you think that there will ever be a time when pre 1995 deacs can legally be sold/traded/gifted within the U.K.. Thanks

Its all explained in the above, once someone realises the mistake I doubt it would be long before its put right...... so yes there will be a gap from when we leave the EU (the sooner the better), where it doesn't apply to us, when you think of all the EU rules and regs we have come under its going to be a long time before they are all re written.

I wonder what driving licence we will get...... maybe revert to the old green one ???? but lets not get political.........as this is just rules and regs.

Nope, never been a dealer or trader in my life so whether anyones got new wrapped Mk3 mags is a mystery to me! But I knew when zillions were destined for the big hot-axe in the sky! Incidentally, I did take a couple of original Mk1's a couple of Mk1 boxes and a few odd early parts etc for work

On my search for Matchless WD G3L parts etc, Its quite amazing what is still in the wrap...... even to a box of spokes for the wheels, found a box of cables for the decompression lever in Israel..... just waiting till I find the tappets, guides and cam shafts. Someone somewhere in the world will have an old mouldy box with them in and as for the Bren Mags I guess there knocking about in a few places I seen boxes of them at the W&P show but can't remember if in the wrap......

I remember back in the 1970s the MOD selling off shed loads of brand new "in the wrap" spares for Standard Vanguards which looked as if they had been wrapped to survive a nuclear explosion. I believe that the reason the MOD had so many spares in store for the Vanguard is because it was used extensively as a staff car. I did go and have a look at a ex staff car, a Standard Ensign (developed from the Vanguard) in the mid 1980s which I was considering buying but decide not to after seeing it. The bodywork was in excellent shape and the car was very original but the engine was completely shot. The one odd thing about this car which the owner told me was because it had been a staff car, was if you shut all the doors you had to remember to take the keys out of the ignition. The owner insisted that it was not a fault but was a security measure; the doors could only be opened from inside the car or with the key from the outside.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

Do you know of any dealers selling MK3 Bren mags still in the wrapper, at affordable prices, then Peter? I've seen plenty of second hand mags for sale but I wasn't aware that ones still in the wrapper are in plentiful supply. I would be interested to hear of any dealers that have them for sale because I need another 4 to make up a tin full

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You could try asking Saracen Exports. The Mk3 Bren I got from them a couple of years back came with a wrapped Mk3 magazine.

They aren't particularly rare but in the last 10 ? years all the boxes of them I have got all came out of Ireland.I picked another partial wrapped box up just before Christmas which were also ex-Irish stock.

Yes, the tin which I have pictured in Post 1 came from an Irish dealer.

Forgot to say: I'm after a mint Enfield made Mk3 magazine to accompany my Mk3 gun. I haven't unwrapped the mag that came with it.

RYTON Arms USED to sell New in the wrap Bren mags in a case of 100.

I don't know if they have any left in stock though?

Wether they would take the time to sort & sell some invidudually, I also cannot say?

I doubt it, but it might be worth a phone call to Lyndsey at Rytons? ;)

Mike. :cheers:

Rytons new in the wrap magazines were Australian Tropical Packed magazines made by Electrolux.

Kevin

I picked some of the trop pack mags up from Rytons a few years back, they are very much like a padded envelope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Part of the "legislation" states something on the lines of , A deactivated firearm not conforming to the new specification can only be sold/ transferred to a none EU country, so in affect when we pull out we will be free....... to trade our old specs (for a while).

I copied and pasted the following from the HMVF,



"So this has now been enacted, section 128 is the bit that deals with
deactivated firearms:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on/128/enacted

If you read through that it's not entirely clear what it means. Subsection
4(c) effectively makes it an offence to transfer a deac that isn't done to
the current spec., and by "current spec." I mean the June 13th, 2016 Home
Office spec. This is a different spec. to the April 2016 spec., which is
the EU spec. So taken as a whole, what it basically says is, it's illegal
to sell or gift a deactivated firearm inside the EU, unless it's done to the
current British spec.


Which makes no sense, because the British spec. is not the EU spec. They're
similar but there are differences.


The Home Office have attempted to give me clarification and their
clarification is very vague. What they appear to be saying is this: if the
UK leaves the EU, then the section becomes meaningless, because then all
transfers would be outside the EU and thus the section doesn't apply. If
the UK stays in the EU, they're going to try and get the European Commission
to adopt the current UK spec. and thus the two specifications will be the
same, and then they're going to apply for the earlier 2010 spec. to also be
recognised as sufficient so those can be transferred as well.


The reason they're being vague in my opinion is because (a) they came up
with their spec. prior to the referendum thus this whole thing has gotten
muddled as they didn't expect a "leave" vote and (b) they don't want to
admit they now have a contingency plan for either event.


What is noticeable to me is they appear to have no intention of applying for
any spec. prior to 2010 to be recognised as sufficient. But that only
matters if the UK stays in the EU.


Anyway the key point is that up until the UK leaving the EU, it's illegal to
sell or gift any deactivated firearm unless it's done to the current spec. -
once the section comes into force and the Home Office tells me that will be
in "the next couple of months" (but it's already illegal under European law
if the deac. is prior to April 2016). Note they've made it into an
indictable offence, so you can get 5 years in prison for violating it,
unlike with realistic imitation firearms where the maximum penalty is only
51 weeks".

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Thanks for that info Geoff, very interesting, many of us here have a blend of deactivated and live Firearms in our collections and this utter mess of pointless legislation needs booting back over the channel along with the rest of EU law. ROLL ON ARTICLE 50!

Not all U.K. dealers appear to be currently fully aware of the forth coming legislation.

I wouldn't expect the dealers to know what's going on as it appears the Government have no idea either.

I recently picked up this sealed in plastic Bren mag at a militaria show and while the mag may not be new old stock, I thought that it would be interesting to know which country's military may have wrapped it in this manner. Does anyone recognise this method of wrapping/storing Bren mags, please? The vendor did have several Australian Bren bits and bobs on his stall so it could, possibly, be Australian? Thanks for any information.