My SMLE

Hi everybody,

after a long time I took my SMELLY out Saturday.
I shot it at 100 and 200 meters, with very varying results.
Three shots in less than one inch at 200 meters, then it started "sinking.......
Is it possible that the barrel tends downwards when heating up?
Then a bit to the right.....
Anyway, still more than ok and really lovely to shoot.
I'll try again and put more concentration in what I do.
It is a 1943 dispersal, for which I also have the long bayonet.
Nose-cap, bolt handle and barrel, the only numbered parts all matching.
Barrel with 4 grooves and in pristine conditions.
Here some pictures.
Attachment 84143Attachment 84144Attachment 84145Attachment 84146Attachment 84147Attachment 84148Attachment 84149Attachment 84150

Mighty nice looking...yes, it seems something is touching the wrong spot and when it starts to heat up it moved.

Just looking at the muzzle it just appears to me that it seems to be more to the Rt of the nose cap (pic 7) and you can see the front sight base is well to the Rt side It may just be the angle of the camera and being out of focus but that is one spot I would look first if the POI changes as the barrel gets hotter. If I am wrong I expect incoming.

Don't panic Ovidio there is probably no foundation there just what or how it appears to me it is certainly very nice rifling and rifle. Thanks for the share.

Here a better picture of the muzzle (before cleaning).
The other one is really too bad to understand anything.
I'd really be interested in understanding your point, because it is not really clear to me yet (language limits, I guess....).
Thanks for looking that accurately anyway!
Next Saturday I'll take out my No.4, Long Branch. Another little jewel.....

Just another couple pictures.
I love this rifle so much.......

Attachment 84158Attachment 84159

Muzzle looks pretty good Ovidio if you look closely the Left ear protector seems pretty close ti the sight base I am wondering if when the barrel gets hot it it moves a smidge & contacts it do not panic but its no soul crushing biggy its just what I noticed. Others may chime in.

Thanks Cinders.
I'll look at it the next time I shoot the Smelly.
In any case, a bit of filing might do the trick. I don't think it could be anything big.
Also, Saturday I was fairly consistent with the windage, only a few shots went right.
It was the elevation that really bothered me.
I have a target (soiled by a friend of mine before I could take the picture) which shows how my first 5 shots were all above target, each of them a bit lower than the previous one, until I settled close to the bulls-eye for my nice group.
Then.....down again.
All holes right of the target and into the black are not mine.
Mine are only the ones stretching vertically for about 15 inches, but in a very narrow path. With the only "sh...tty exception of the one in the 8 at 7'oclock. That one is mine, sob......

Oh, the date is wrong. I was a bit out of my head, I guess....

So, a vertical group...can be caused by breathing...sight picture variation or a warming barrel. I had a .30 cal sporting rifle once that would shoot POA for the first three and then climb straight up the bull. Is that what yours did? You almost need a spotter to watch your fall of shot and record same.

Guess I have to try with a spotter. I started high and came down low. Then it stopped for a few rounds (I took some time between rounds) and then.....it plummeted further down.
Also the following target, with cold barrel, started high and came down.
Really a nasty girl that Smelly;-)

When you have an 'accuracy' problem you need to take al of the human influences away - or at least as many as you possibly can - and fire small groups of 6 or 7. We used to use an Enfield layer - or the rest. The experts could identify the fault(s) by the shot pattern.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

you need to take all of the human influences away

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But I doubt he has an Enfield rest available, it would be too easy. I can still see our sitting alone on the 25 yd range back in the '70s. I knew what it was even then...wonder where it is today?

Best OP can probably do is shot bags under front and back at the cardinal points and we have to trust his trigger manipulation. The sight picture is the only other thing that could be called into question...but again we have to trust him. Then there's always bringing in a trusted shooter that you know will do well to see where his fall of shot is.

Saturday I certainly wasn't at my best, so I guess next time I will have a friend spotting and concentrate very much on the "human" part of the shooting.
Concerning the rifle itself, Peter, I have a trigger which is not at all bad apart from the first part of the pull, until it hits the stop.
It grinds quite a bit.
If I pull to the stop and then release, the next time I start pulling, the trigger is perfectly smooth.
Would it be a difficult thing to polish the trigger mechanism a bit, or would you suggest to keep off of it?

Ovidio you did not have a night on the Grappa or Red wine old chap by any chance! Just asking.....:madsmile:

Not past Saturday. The week-end before we had the annual meeting of the Mountain Troops in Treviso and, well......
But just a couple grappas.
We were roughly 500.000. Great event again!

Doesn't matter, I know you can shoot, that is I feel confident...so let's try this again and see?

Ok! I'm curious myself now!

All will end well...

Your trigger pull should not be harsh. Both the first and second pull should be very smooth. There is an article about adjusting and fine tuning your trigger pull somewhere on the forum. A properly set up trigger is at least as good as some of these other all singing and dancing 'target' triggers that some talk of

Some of those target triggers Peter can be set as low a 2oz not my cup of tea, we have to prove the rifles sear by cycling the bolt vigorously then closing it sharpish like and the sear must not drop (F class and Full Bore) you only have to do it once on the day stops AD's.

Dear Peter, that's exactly the point. Every time I load a new round, the first pull is kind of rough until it gets to the second. If I release the trigger and do it again, the first pull is wonderfully smooth.
One of these days I'll take down the whole rifle and look at this with some attention.

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Originally Posted by Ovidio

One of these days I'll take down the whole rifle and look at this

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I think once you do that, it'll be clear to you. I'd be using my close up lookers for that...either it's abraised or it's been messed with.

What I did using a very small dremel was strip the rifles firing mechanism clean all parts in acetone or isoprophyl polish the trigger nodes lightly till they were nice and shiny, next very very carefully the sear where the 1st and second pull nodes hit the sear again extremely lightly with very small dremel then the end of the sear which contacts the nose of the cocking piece very carefully again, finally the face of the cocking piece which contacts the sear.
But I stress my dremel is an electric hobby one that bogs down just getting the fine compound on the soft wheel and any pressure above 4-5 ozs stalls the wheel the key is little bits very carefully especially the cocking piece face as you do not want to change the angle of engagement one iota.
I also pulled out the sear pin & trigger pin and polished those in the same fashion then used a thin coat of gun oil on all parts, that was on my MA MkIII 1945 and the take up and let off are like fluid smooth as I also polished the firing pin shaft so the spring can slide a bit easier may have increased the lock time who know but anything is worth a go. Others may be abhored by my little mods which are not as bad as some of them I have seen with filed out nose caps and bent trigger guards......................

Quite similar to what I did on the Mosin M44. Different mechanism, similar principles to make it better. No change of angles etc. just polish everything. Did a great deal of good.

Short question for all those who love the good old SMELLY.
I've been thinking about replacing the rear sight on my rifle with one with side adjustment.
With the offset right protection blade that should be possible, correct?
Is there any reason for not doing it? Standard rear sights, adjustable or not, should all be the same, right?

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Originally Posted by Ovidio

Is there any reason for not doing it?

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It'll fit yes, and it's your rifle so you can if you want. The thing is, they were long since removed from the rifles by that time. 1916 I think they actually stopped using that adjustable rear sight.

Might be a problem with range adjustment?
In this case, I guess that if it's not enormous, then it should not be very problematic.
My reloads already don't match the range on the rear sight.
From the collectors point of view it might be a terrible thing to do, but I'd keep the original sight anyway.
It's just that the only thing that really bothers me in all those bolt-action rifles is the adjustment of the sights.
Elevation is mostly ok, but the drift is always a pain right where the sun never shines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ovidio

Might be a problem with range adjustment?

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I think it was just a manufacture change and an unnecessary step when rifles were in dire need.

Today I took the lady out again and did muuuch better.
Still, when heating up, the rounds fell down.
Different load and different powder, but still the same effect once heated.
I also noticed that the right drift was 90% my fault.
Got back to it after I started losing concentration, but it took just a couple breaths to get back on target.
Well, that's all folks.
I wish everybody a wonderful and blessed Sunday.
I'll go up some mountains around here, since for the first time in over one month it's not raining during the week-end.

So perhaps something is bearing against the barrel...the nose cap holding down the front or a high spot in the center. I find it hard to believe this wasn't attended forty or sixty years ago....

Enjoy the mountains, I know what you mean there...

Well, no mountain today.
I don't feel good. Some flu, maybe.
Too bad.
Anyway, here is yesterday's target.
The upper shots were test shots with my no.4. They don't count.
All the others are on target (with 3 exceptions) and are with the good old no.1.
Again I lost concentration after a few shots and went a bit right, but the downward pattern is confirmed, although not as extreme as last time.
Just one shot went totally astray, but it could be a mistake from myself (though I didn't notice). I took more time between shots, preventing a strong heating-up of the barrel. The rifle tends a bit to the right, but I also noticed that now, being warm and me shooting with a t-shirt, the shooting bench is so raw that I get my elbow raw and hurting, and that prevents me from having a comfortable shooting position. Windage is affected by these things quite a bit, so I'll try to make myself more comfortable when I get back to the range.
I'll load a few more rounds and get back at it next time.

Last Saturday I took the good old Smelly out again.
After a few rounds to adjust (started aiming at the bullseye, but the sight was for the bottom of it. Plus the worm-screw needed a little adjustment), we started doing great. All rounds in the bullseye were in a single string.
Until.......broken brass.
An almost new Hornady case just ruptured roughly one inch over the rim, leaving me deeply unsatisfied.
It took a week to get the thing out, since the gunsmith had to make a little extraction tool for the job.
No signs of overpressure, probably a faulty brass, with some material flaws.
But now the SMELLY is fit again, and I'm hoping to be able to take her out again next week-end.
I really love that rifle!

Again a broken brass.
This time close to the rim.
Inhave a 0 bolt head. Could it be that too much tolerance stresses the brass?
No overpessure at all.

Change to a different brand of brass, and/or buy a clearing plug.

The muzzle looks OK.

There should be upwards pressure holding the muzzle firmly against the "corners" of the little window in the top of the hole for the barrel.

This spring pressure is provided by the spring and plunger that SHOULD be between the rear of the nowse-cap and the barrel.

Further back, there should be another screw along the bottom of the fore-end, near the sling swivel / outer band.

This screw, and another spring, which fit into the INNER band around the barrel, should be pulling the barrel downwards slightly.

All of that is to "tune' the barrel to Mk7 ball ammo.

Mk8 Privi Partizan or any other commercial ammo will require a different arrangement.

Further back, if the fore-end wood is not solidly held firm by the "angled" lower surfaces on the receiver / body, any corrections to the fitting at the muzzle end will not have much effect.

I recall that Italy produced a LOT of .303 ammo, just under a different name, before and after the last great unpleasantness. If you are reloading, see if you can find some of the FLAT based bullets from local 7.7 rimmed ammo, Load them in new cases with a relatively fast powder and see what happens.

There was a rumour, based on their own internet sites, that the Russians AND the Ukranians were producing .311", 174gn, flat-based FMJ bullets and even loading it in ammo, (7.62 x 54R) for export. You are a LOT closer to these sources than those of us in Australia.

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.

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Originally Posted by Mk VII

Change to a different brand of brass, and/or buy a clearing plug.

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I’m using Hornady brass. Should be very good.
In any case, I’ll certainly buy the plug.
Thanks

I know you asked the question a while ago here, but I might be able to give a heads up: If you are wanting windage adjustment from your backsights you could find a set of MKI/MKI* rear sights with windage and ivory inserts in the buttony things that you push in to move the slide to change height adjustments. However, I have a sportered MKIII* with a set of these sights, and though they look great and do a fine job they shoot about a foot high at 100 yards at the lowest setting, that is as far as the rear sights will go down, meaning that I unless I file down the slide or extend the front sights upwards it will keep shooting high with the ammo I use. Could be that being a sporter with no up pressures like SMLE's were supposed to have that it has thrown all that out of wack, but I believe it is mostly due to the rear sights being meant for a completely different pattern of enfield and ammunition. I would probably stay away from MKI/MKI* rear sights for your rifle, or at least research the differences before proceeding.

I may be wrong, but that is my experience. Best of luck.

Ovidio if your going to go with the windage sights which are out there go for a latter version mainly due to the fact of price the early ivory inserted ones will sting your wallet pretty hard you can search on fleabay usually there are some on the net in England but some one here in Milsurps may have a few lying around so may be able to assist you.
I was wondering a bit and may suggest you try shooting the rifle like we run in a new barrel and that is having at least 2 minutes between shots leaving the bolt open for airflow through the barrel keeping it relatively cool to see if it really is heating up that causes the dispersion, as firing 8-10 rounds quickly will heat the tube up pretty quickly just a thought. (No need to clean it between shots we are not running in the barrel)

With regards to the differences in the sights I was under the impression the graduations were the same but it was the ramp on the sight bed that was altered to allow for the flatter trajectory of the MkVII ammunition as a yard is a yard as marked on the sight ladder I could be wrong though.

Ovidio,

If you have reloaded the Hornady brass a few times, it is very likely fatigue causing your cases to fail. The .303 is rather hard on cases, and we sometimes only get a few reloads before case separation.
There are ways to extend case life, such as only neck sizing or minimal case sizing, but these rifles will stretch the cases more than some other types. Maybe do a search on case separation.

To remove a stuck case, run another round into it, and then extract. It will usually pull out the remains. Or, a good screwdriver with a blade wide enough to grip the walls of the failed case;
Push it into the case, twist, and the case usually comes out. For this it makes sense to sharpen the sides of the blade very squarely, so they bight into the case walls.
I have had a good few cases fail over the years, and the screwdriver or another round have always extracted the bad case.
I do not think it is a headspace problem, it is just what these rifles tend to do with reloads at a certain point.
If a case has been reloaded a few times, and a wire it inserted into the case mouth, sometimes a groove can be felt a few mm in front of the rim, where the case is about to separate. Another warning sign, is a ligther coloured line around the case, and this is where the brass is stretched thin and will fail .

Hope this helps!
Richard.

Thank you very much Richard,

it will certainly help.
I tried the screwdriver, but the case is really stuck, like last time.
I’ll wait for the removal plug I ordered at Brownell’s and see, otherwise I’ll again have to go to the gunsmith.
The remaining brass will immediately land in the waste bin.
I had enough of these accidents.
Now that I got the rifle perfectly sighted in with its original rear sight.
Even yesterday, the first shot was dead centre at 100 meters. The following 5 also all in the bullseye, event the last one, which broke.
And again, right when things were getting really funny....game over.
Arghhhhh!!!:banghead:

Dear Ovidio,
This is a frequently-discussed problem, you'll see many threads and diagrams about what happens. Here's my personal experience:
I had a MLE which was in lovely condition, but it split brass and in the end I just sold it on. I have never subsequently had any problem with any of my other .303s, so I think it must have just had an oversize chamber. Short of getting rid of it, here are simple ways to reduce the tendency to split brass:
1. use good quality cases - avoid Sellier & Bellot; choose Prvi Partizan or Greek surplus HXP.
2. Segregate your cases, and neck resize the ones used in the problem rifle [don't full-length resize].
3. Ask your gunsmith to check the headspace, and change boltheads as needed - though this is not likely to be a big contributor to case splitting. When you say you have a 0 bolthead on a No 1 rifle, this puzzles me somewhat, as I understood the No 1 boltheads were not numbered for size.
all the best
Rob

Keeping a ruptured case tool on hand for .303 is always a good plan, no matter how well you care for brass. Normally I can get mine out as described but some can be harder. I think it depends on chamber condition...

I have 2 one for each 37 pattern webbing pouch I use, it actually saved my mate last year in a shooting comp I was spotting/scoring for him and he had a ruptured case he did not have one so I lent him mine for the rest of the shoot.
He was most thankful as it was the first shoot of the day and would have cost him dearly fortunately for me I beat him (and the others).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nijalninja

If you are wanting windage adjustment from your backsights you could find a set of MKI/MKI* rear sights with windage and ivory inserts in the buttony things that you push in to move the slide to change height adjustments.

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The British government has never been know for generosity towards its own troops, the ivory bits to which you refer are I'm afraid to disclose made from bone.

Rob, you’re right.
I checked right now and there are a few markings, just no number.
I have the number on the no. 4 bolt head.
Sorry for the mistake...
Just went with memory after being asked by a guy at the range.