L1A1 pistol grip mod in Aden

Morning all,

I watched a fascinating old BBC documentary on You Tube last night

Mad Mitch and His Tribal Law

Empire Warriors
Aden, 1967: Lt Col Colin 'Mad Mitch' Mitchell...

BBC - Empire Warriors 1 of 4: Mad Mitch and His Tribal Law - YouTube

the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, they didn't muck about!

Anyway, highly recommend watching chaps.

I noticed about two thirds of the way through, a soldier had a hose clamp attached pistol grip on his L1A1 forend.

It must be one of the earliest examples of the practice I have seen.

At about 59 minutes, entering a building...I still don't understand why though, it makes it seem like the individual want to handle it like a submachine gun at the hip instead of a rifle...?

I wonder if it was a matchstick automatic special Jim.

Hard to say, mine was always properly converted...illegally... These guys would have the same moxy about it, hard to say.

Sad to think that many of the graves in Silent Valley have been desecrated in the last few months during the most recent Civil War of 2017.
The graves of A&SH and Parachute Regiment soldiers who lost their lives are buried there and the A&SH lost 22 on that one days action in the Crater 20th June 1967.

I recently worked on a case with the CWGC on two missing graves of British Paratroopers who they said were definately buried in Silent Valley from 1 PARA and logged as such in all MOD archives and even the National Arboretum.
After a great deal of investigation and delving into a war, which was slightly before my service in the Regiment, I quickly realised noone in the UK really wanted to upset any locals regarding this very important matter, as they, as the graveyard workers feared for their own lives in the most unstable country in the world at the moment.

It turned out the gravestones were actually still there, inferring they were buried there, but in fact, one of the lads was repatriated by his family in 1967 at their cost as they did not want him buried where he wasn't wanted, and the other had drowned in Cornwall on R&R and his body not found till the following year and buried at home in Scotland. History has been re written on those two young lives. RIP

Thank God MOD saw reason after the Falklands War in 82, where repatriation became compulsory.
IMHO it is disgraceful that any soldier of any country should be left behind after any war or conflict on a battle field, in often countries who detest their presence there even today!

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Sad to think that many of the graves in Silent Valley have been desecrated in the last few months during the most recent Civil War of 2017.
The graves of A&SH and Parachute Regiment soldiers who lost their lives are buried there and the A&SH lost 22 on that one days action in the Crater 20th June 1967.

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One would think that the civil war is not going to last for ever and hopefully some form of stability will eventually return. Whatever form of government emerges in the country, once the civil war is over, the one certainty is that they are likely to require large amounts of foreign aid for many years to come. Perhaps we should consider making our giving of any aid to their country conditional on them dealing with/restoring the graves that have been desecrated, to our satisfaction?

Sadly that falls on the highly motivated groundsmen and women who care for these Commonwealth War graves all over the world, and paid for by donations to the CWGC by Governments and individuals.

I visited Waynes Keep in Cyprus last year which is in No Mans land in the UN Buffer zone on Remembrance Day on behalf of RHQ Parachute Regiment.
The care that the two groundsmen take in a dust bowl very similar to Silent Valley in Aden is outstanding, especially when you consider where it is, in the middle of a war zone left since 1974 untouched, except the graveyard which is immaculate. They are often taken for granted in such difficult areas of conflict, and always worth showing your appreciation by shaking their skilled hands.

I always remember as a young soldier sitting watching one man take two hours to re carve much of the name details on a row of grave stones of Canadians killed on Vimy Ridge.....what skill and patience, my lack of movement was due to a heavy drinking session the night before, but I savoured every moment and it never left me, and motivated me to do what I do in Gravewatch.

The graves in Silent Valley are no different, but the variance of climate and high sandy winds, take their toll on these Portland gravestones, from when I was last there.
A graveyard which often gets forgotten in the middle of the town is Hafoon Cemetery in Ma-Allah, which has been absolutely smashed to pieces during this year and where firing positions have been built with the gravestones rather than fill sandbags as a traditional bullet catcher. Luckily all Military graves now are GPS logged and they may think that we will forget them...................but we shall not, in that we will not be defeated!

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Hard to say, mine was always properly converted...illegally... These guys would have the same moxy about it, hard to say.

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As we didn't use the L2 Jim, there wouldn't be access to an L2 safety. The options would be limited to matchstick automatic or one of their armourers modify an L1A1 safety with a second indent and removing the spur, then add a shorter trigger plunger.


They did seem to very much do their own thing mind you, so I wouldn't put it past them!

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

The options would be limited

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Seen...

I know it is the 'old soldier' in me, but I often think of the souls whose mortal remains rest where they fought and died, North Africa, Malaya (now Malaysia), PNG, and so many other places. It saddens me know that in many places their deeds, their sacrifices and their passing is hardly remembered and often unappreciated. Worse yet, is when their very presence, their final resting place, is resented and their graves desecrated.

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

Worse yet, is when their very presence, their final resting place, is resented and their graves desecrated.

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Yet, them doing this may not stop them receiving Foreign Aid from us.

Perhaps if these uncivilized people can't or won't respect the graves, maybe we should consider repatriation and re- internment in the UK, so these young men can be given the respect they deserve.

Desecrating their graves makes my blood absolutely boil!

Are there any previous cases where something like this has happened in the past Gil?

Far too many to mention.................sadly it always follows, after we pour millions of pounds into countries after our "Gunboat diplomacy"doctrine fails, and we still wonder why we continue to do it!!!

I did an analysis two years ago after the Benghazi Military Cemetery was absolutely desecrated, and the Cross of Sacrifice smashed to a pulp. It was found that it was only the young breed, who caused the damage.

They who knew nothing of the sacrifice that young British/Commonwealth and American lives had laid down in WW1 and WW2 and before, so that they who were free to be able to do this mindless vandalism, never even gave it a second thought.

I totally agree with repatriation, but to try and do that now after all the bodies we have strewn across every continent, and bring them home, would present any country with an enomous challenge. The DNA side of the UNKNOWN soldiers side of things would be very costly indeed, trying to find NOK, body parts to ID etc.

Everything is possible, and hopefully one day when methods of identifying people or body parts is easier, then it could, and should happen. We musn't forget also, some NOK prefer their loved ones to be buried in the country they died in, so their wishes are always paramount. If families placed pressure on their respective Ministry of Defences in the other countries, especially if this desecration continues to this level, I would always support them to have their loved ones brought home. RIP

I know the CWGC went in and repaired the stones there, but felt the Cross being restored was like a red rag to a bull, with the current instability, and it appeared to cause provocation showing the symbol of Christianity, which has until now stood the test of time......................:mad:

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that at the very beginning of WW1 the British Army did repatriate some/a few bodies of soldiers killed in action, if the families wished, but the numbers became too great and a logistical impossibility?

Benghazi was very much in the forefront of my mind when I wrote my earlier post; as were CWGC cemeteries in Egypt and a number of Middle Eastern countries.

No Politics here, but it is time to leave them to their own devices...............you will never succeed trying to stick democracy down their throats.....they have never been, nor are they ever going to be interested for a variety of reasons.
Now there would be a challenge for any new Government today in ANY of our Allied countries who fought together...........Bring them all home, except those on European soil IMHO

If you want to see non-European places where the graves are meticulously kept, go to Malaya, Singapore, India and even Rangoon where Burma have no real love for us. As a bit of an aside, in Singapore and Malaya the local paper regularly mentioned to the locals that they would be rewarded if they knew where bodies were buried and to builders/road maintenance teams etc etc (they were always pushed into the roadside ditches as they putrefy within hours) that they would be rewarded if they found them. 25 Coy RLC had a gleaming gloss green Morris 1 ton truck that was retained for the sole purpose of joining the recovery squad (I think that they were local grave diggers and a Pioneer/RMP Sgt ) would recover the remains and they'd be taken reverently to the BMH in Alexandra Camp/hospital where the IWGC as it was then would do the necessary and bury them at Kranji. If the nationality was known the pallbearers would be from that nation (Indians had Gurkhas) otherwise they'd come from a mix of nations available. The same gleaming truck would be the hearse and you could occasionally see them doing their stuff at Gloucester Barracks along the road. The truck was the only truck that had a canopy in the whole Country such was the heat! The RLC driver was a nice bloke called 'Dixie' Dean from High Wycombe and the RCT blokes used to share our 'minor units' facilities. How do I remember all of this stuff.....? It was only ever bones of course and these were packed into 25 pounder ammo boxes and that box would be in the cheapo MDF type 'wood' coffin that was buried along with the solid silver marker plate which we engraved at the big workshop.

Not strictly L1A1 or even remotely related to small arms but there you go!

Peter said, 'Not strictly L1A1 or even remotely related to small arms...'

Never mind being off track for something as important as sharing historical details like that.

Peter,
As you know, I went recently to Kranji Cemetery in Singapore to honour two lads that died in the Battle of Plaman Mapu in Borneo on the 27th April 1965, from the 2nd Battalion The Parachute Regiment, and I met, and spent a great deal of time with the Manager of the CWGC Kannaya Somu.
What an incredible and selfless man, who together with his staff there, protect it as if it was their own family members laid there, from every country who had died in conflicts in the Far East. He knew many of the individual stories of those who died by the hands of the Japanese in WW2, and the stories of men bayoneted in their hospital beds as they recovered from trying to defend the small island against the might of the Imperial Army......he was moved as he told the stories of these unknown young men who tried to protect his homeland.

I was lucky as a lad to have lived there as my father was stationed at RAF Seletar, and often saw him go off to services at Kranji in his best uniform of downed and recovered aircrew and Army lads recovered by his unit in the jungles of Malaya and Sarawak. He was emotionally drained by it all, and something I will never forget.

If you ever find yourself in Singapore and can make time to visit Kranji.... you will never forget what a fantastic memorial it is to the fallen from the Commonwealth Forces, kept in absolutely pristine condition RIP to all those brave men and women who died in Defence of the Realm.

Gil, an obvious question has to be, have German and Italian graves also been desecrated in Libya in the recent conflict there? Or are only British/Allied graves targeted for some obscure reason?

Quite a few, regardless of nationality.

Yes, Unless you are a follower of the Islamic Beheading, Stoning, Goat humping & Paedophilic 'Religion of peace'???......You are ALL infidels in 'Their' Eyes! & I guess 'They' don't discriminate amongst Grave Headstones/ Crosses?......:(

Good to see you back, tankhunter, and with your subtle choice of words. :rolleyes: