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Has anyone used these in their milsurp reloading?
I'm wondering particularly how it would work in 7.5 Swiss. It has a high BC...higher than the Berger 175 gr VLD, which is often compared favorably to the GP11 projectile.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...oint-boat-tail
I have tried the Berger's and they are ok.... I have my best results with smk bthp 168's With imr 4895 (44grains) worked very nicely.... submoa. I tried 175 smk's but they were not as good. Oh, and I used berdan primers. Powder valley had them on sale last year or 2 and I bought 10,000 of them 😳. Why, idk other than I knew they would be a rare finding in the future. Then at the height of my work-up, gp11 miraculously appeared on the market and I bought a lot to last for years. To answer your question, the bergers were not worth the extra bit of money. Greats results with Sierra match king
As a side note Sierra 6.5mm 142gn Match are now $104/100 here where as the 140 VLD Bergers are $72/100 which one would you buy!
Whilst the SMK's work well so do the Berger VLD's out of my 6.5 x 284 and I sure as eggs cannot justify the extra $32 just because its name is Seirra........
Best fortune with 168 SMK and 4064. Same load with Nosler 168 produced the same group but shot 3" lower for some reason.
I have 175 Nossler Match, but not the RLD, those were ok.
The Sierra 175 M shot better.
I would like to see a GP11 bullet profile compared to the others.
From what I can tell, it seems to be fatter not longer, LD type. Probably will pull one out so I can see it.
Maybe put it on the coppier with the Nossler and Sierra 175 and see what I get.
I've done pretty well with that combo in my 1911's...43.9 grs of 4064 and 168 gr Nosler CC'sQuote:
Originally Posted by maxim
---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------
I've had good luck with 168's and 4064 in my 1911's. My K-31's seem to like 175's and Re-17 betterQuote:
Originally Posted by speckles
---------- Post added at 05:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 PM ----------
Damn...Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
Ehh, don't bother...Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
Various 175 gr .308 bullets compared to the GP11 projectile
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../KJUYrHf-1.jpg
Sierra MK, Nosler CC, Barnes MB, GP11
---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 PM ----------
What method did you use to decap the GP11 brass?Quote:
Originally Posted by speckles
RCBS berdan depriming tool. relatively easy and quick, maybe not as fast as the hydrolic method but fast enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calfed
I've got one of those RCBS Berdan decapping tools...never really figured out how to get it to workQuote:
Originally Posted by speckles
Give me a day or two and I can post a video. The persnickety part is setting the pin to correct depth. That's just requires a few decaps to get to correct depth. Once set, it's bang, bang, bang..... not literally unless you have live primers.��Quote:
Originally Posted by Calfed
Great, thank you. I will print that out. I think I have some Berger Juggernauts I can compare with as well. It sure is a different beast isn't it!Quote:
Ehh, don't bother...
Various 175 gr .308 bullets compared to the GP11 projectile
And why does not someone duplicate it?
It is possible the Nosler RDF comes closer to duplicating the GP11 bullet. As you can see, the Barnes Match Burner is closer than the Nosler CC or Sierra MK's.Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
picture 1: berdan/swiss gp11 used primers
picture 2: rcbs depriming tool/handle/allen wrench
picture 3: locking screw for depriming pin
picture 4: allen wrench to losen or lock depriming pin
picture 5: allen wrench in depriming pin which can increase or decrease pin depth
picture 6: brass holding handle
picture 7: brass on holding handle
picture 8: soft foam for handle while depriming....after 100, fingers get sore.
picture 9: use depriming tool like a bottle opener.. requires a little bit of force.
picture 10/11: deprimed berdan cap and caps.
It is possible to seat the depriming pin to deep and break the pin... the key is to start shallow and give it a 1/2 turn and retry.. Once its at the correct depth you are in business. You will have to lock and unlock the pin each time until the correct depth is obtained. Don't get greedy, go slow. Moderate force is require to pull the primer out. A bit more than opening an IPA beer with a bottle opener. Pins are available and I have broken one after 1000 pulls. No biggy. You should get a 99% depriming rate, or more.
If you look closely at the GP-11 bullet, and even better, at the drawings for it, you will see a very unusual feature, apart from the long boat-tail.
The ogive is of secant form and starts immediately forward of the cannelure. There is almost NO parallel bearing surface on the entire bullet.
Thus, ANY "ersatz" bullet MUST have a similar secant ogive form. Especially if you are feeding a K-31. WHY?
Unlike the earlier K-11, the K-31 has a VERY short throat, specifically designed to work with the GP-11 bullet.
The 1911 models have a LONG throat designed to work with the earlier, "torpedo-shaped" GP-90 /03 ammo as well as the "new" GP-11. By the time the K-31 was introduced, there probably was no need to accommodate the ancient GP-90 ammo.
Thus, the short K-31 throat MUST be fed with secant ogive bullets, not tangent-ogive stuff like the Sierra style.
I use the locally (Oz) made BJD HBC 155 grain, secant ogive jobs, because they WORK and I also use them in my "full-bore" .308" target rifle, in which they also work very well.
I picked up some of the Nosler 175 gr .308 RDF's. Very similar to the Barnes Match Burners
I noticed the meplat is much smaller and more uniform than the other bullets
Various 175 gr .308 bullets...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...QE10jpg2-1.jpg
Sierra MK, Nosler Custom Comp, Barnes MB, Nosler RDF
RCBS berdan depriming tool is basically a pry bar and is horrendously expensive. Really not necessary any more. Even for 7.5 Swiss. Graf's carries Boxer Prvi brass at $29.99 per 50. $37.99 per 25 for the over priced Norma stuff.
No$ler everything is over priced too. If you want a 175 grain match bullet, Sierra makes a regular Match King and a Tipped MK. Hornady makes a 178 grain Match and ELD-Match. Use 175 grain data.
I've been using Prvi brass for reloading, but have thousands of rounds of GP11 brass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
I was able to buy a 500 piece box of first quality 175 gr Nosler RDF's for $130 shipped, so they are not terrible expensive.
I've got some good results with the 168gr Sierra Tipped Matchking which is a secant design. At an OAL of 3.06" they're just touching the throat of my very tight bored K31. I got a good string of 10s shooting from 300yds on the MR63 target (5.85" circle) using an old Noske 2.5X scope last match I shot in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
I got some good results with the Sierra 175 match, picked up in bulk.
A shade under 1 MOA. Deep seating was what worked. Have to look up the COAL I set them to.
I've used them also...2.855" COAL in my K31's; 2.925" in my 1911's. I'm interested in seeing if the RDF's will be closer to the GP11 COALQuote:
Originally Posted by RC20
COAL works if the Meplats are all the same they can vary 5-10 thou but I guess if your shooting military then the variation is not so critical, I set up a dummy 303 SMK 175gn for all my 303's and just leave the die set to that.
I have also compared the readings between the "Nut" and Hornady ogive set and there is a good variation between the two obtained ogive measurements use one or the other.
Lastly check your batches of projectiles as what Berger did and we never heard a whisper of it but why would we being below the equator therefore we do not exist is that Berger bullets moved the Ogive on the 140gn VLD 6.5mm projectiles and if you have a old batch say with a 30 thou jump measured on the old projectile and you seat a new one then your going to end up with a 4 thou jam.
Old 6.5mm Ogive measured with the Hornady ogive comparator .736" new Ogive measurement .770"
500 6.5mm RDF costs us $350/Au here in West Au, Berger 6.5mm VLD 140's will set you back up to from some suppliers $77/100 + postage but are a bit lower priced from others down to $72/100
For an interesting bit of data, somebody with a loose GP11 bullet should measure the diameter below the cannelure groove, and above it.
You will observe something unusual.
To my knowlege, no other bullet has that.
They do it for a reason. (What? Heck if I know -- I have some guesses, but they're just guesses -- the Swiss do everything for a reason and are rather proud of not copying anybody else).
I don't bother to handload GP11. At 52 cents a round, delivered, not too long ago, I stockpiled. I can't reload for that price.
My sons and I shoot Swiss rifles in vintage military rifle silhouette matches where no FMJ bullets are allowed. Reloading 7.5 x 55 is a necessity for us.
I did pull apart a GP11 round, measured the powder (48.3) and examined the bullet.
There truly is nothign like it (sand the RDF maybe and I have not seen one)
I can see why I would have problems as I assume the rifling profile per Calfed is unique to that profile.
As no other profiles are close, I believe you can only experiment.
I have used the GP11 gullet to see how it compares to lands contact vs how far set back. My test setup is not accuracy meaning true contact so I have to put one in a dummy round and test it. As its .050 measured and the contact is further out than that on other rounds, I believe .070 to .100 will be more accurate actual contact when I do the dummy frond and bolt closure test. .
I did have it shooting and its gone off again. The GP11 were not as accurate one I was dialed in with the stock screw setting but pretty good (1 1/4). I only have 9 left so am saving those!
I have duplicated the load (R17 and a comparison amount of 43450) and have a range of test round ready to go again. First one will be out as far as GP11, the rest are set way long and I will adjust to a longer COAL if the rounds don't work and see if there is an improvement going closer to the lands.
Last step would be a big jump further out.
Any updates on your range tests, RC20?
My range tests spread over a span of 48 years working almost exclusively with Swiss Rifles. A range test that includes the GP11 and the Berger 175gr VLD only begins to show their superiority beyond 3 to 500 yards and further.