Ferguson rifle

Having just acquired a like-new Narragansett Arms reproduction of the Ferguson rifle, I'm preparing to shoot it - but some significant information does not seem to be readily found:
What was the original powder charge for the Ferguson military rifle (I realize that this is controlled by the space between the chambered ball and the front of the breechblock, and so is a fixed quantity which may or may not be the same as in the replica)?
What lubricant, if any, was applied to the ball?
And what lubricant, if any, was used on the threads of the breech block?
Any tips/tricks or advice from someone who has experience with the Ferguson would be appreciated!

mhb - MIke

Experience with early modern replicas, made before the proper screw and thread pitch of the breechblock were rediscovered, seemed to indicate that while reloading was rapid, it seemed to be necessary to first lubricate the breech screw (originally with a mixture of beeswax and tallow) or else the (replica) rifle would foul so much that it needed cleaning after three or four shots. However, through the research efforts of DeWitt Bailey and others, the properly made reproduction Ferguson rifle, made according to Patrick Ferguson's specifications of the 1770s, can fire beyond sixty shots.

According to Forgotten weapons vid that I just looked at they used a .65 caliber ball first off for the most accurate shooting.
Then after the rifle was fouled (How many shots did not say) change to a .61 caliber ball the load they used in the video was 75gns of 3F Swiss (No liability accepted in the use of this load only repeating what was on the video)

Ferguson Breechloading Flintlock - YouTube

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

used a .65 caliber ball first off for the most accurate shooting.
Then after the rifle was fouled (How many shots did not say) change to a .61 caliber ball

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Because you could carry a bunch of both and be able to tell the difference when you were firing by order...

You write the bullet diameter on the paper cartridge. [emoji849]

Oh my! Just when I was thinking that I really don't need another rifle... along comes THIS !!!!

A real show-stopper at any meeting!

Oh dear! I searched the internet - several years (and thousands of dollars) too late to get one!

But one can dream...

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Originally Posted by gsimmons

You write the bullet diameter on the paper cartridge.

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And you'd be able to stop a read them...select the right one...neat...

It would surely be more practical to have two cartridge pouches?

I’m sure the ball diameter was such that it took fouling into consideration.

I don’t have any experience with the Ferguson rifle itself, but I used to shoot a model 1863 sharps carbine in competition. I used a cooking oil spray(Pam) to lubricate the breach block. I could fire the carbine all day without having to remove it between events. As far as lube for the I would experiment with the different types that are out there. Measure the bore and then get a few sizes of balls and see which one is most accurate.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

more practical

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I'm sure you guys are missing my point and looking at it from a range practise viewpoint...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'm sure you guys are missing my point and looking at it from a range practise viewpoint...

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You mean it’d be different if someone was shooting back at you, Jim? ;)

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Originally Posted by rcathey

shooting back

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You have trouble with fine motor skills too...

re differentiating between different loads in a cartridge box, I can't tell you what the British did in the 18th century but, during the Civil War, Yank cartridge packs carried 10 rounds, usually 1 or more would have been a Williams 'cleaner' bullet. Those were wrapped in colored papers, usually blue or red if I recollect correctly. I would be surprised if the Brits didn't do something along the same line. Maybe have different colored tails or such like.

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What was the original powder charge for the Ferguson military rifle (I realize that this is controlled by the space between the chambered ball and the front of the breechblock, and so is a fixed quantity which may or may not be the same as in the replica)?

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I was looking at something about the repro Fergeson when I caught this. In the write up on their reproduction the "rifle shoppe" gives this bit of info; "The powder chamber holds 72 grains." Here's a link to the whole thing... http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalo...arms/(513).htm
That, of course, is max. Civil War loadss for .58 caliber long rifle-muskets ran to 65 grains on average if that is any help. Plus that took a certain minimum load to upset the hollow based Minie Ball, a consideration you don't have to concern yourself with. Lower is better, more accurate and less fouling.
I hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'm sure you guys are missing my point and looking at it from a range practise viewpoint...

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You have a point, Jim. Considerung that I manage to get confused when on the range, then any arrangement to be used in combat really has to work without thinking.
So reading any script is out, and my 2-pouch suggestion is not so brilliant (thinks: Did I put the smaller balls in the laft or right pouch? Hey, enemy, shut up for a minute so that I can check..) Nope, not realistic.

Color disntinction: easier. But I think the best idea is NO distinction. Try this scenario for plausibility: "Sorry sarge, I can't shoot any more, I've only got the big balls left". The response would be unmistakable and unprintable.

After all, these were soft lead balls. Now I have read a couple of times about Minié-rifle shooters using different sized balls, but again I seriously doubt the practicality in combat.
And I have sufficent experience with shooting muzzle-loaders in competitions where you are not allowed to clean between shots (3 targets at 3 distances in one afternoon = about 50 shots, including fouling shots = complaining shoulder and sore elbows) to permit the opinion that IF the ball is greased well enough, then you can shoot as long as your body can stand it (and 50 shots was about it, in my case).

With the Minié rifle, the problem is a crudded bore making it difficult to ram the ball down the barrel and seat it properly on the powder.
But with a breech-loading rifle, any soft-lead ball that you can chamber is going to come out of the muzzle end. The problem is going to be loss of accuracy if the grooves are so crudded up that you are effectively shooting a smooth-bore rifle (i.e. a musket). The answer is sufficient lubrication, not fiddling around with different sizes of ball. And that is what I guess happened in the field.

OK, it happened again. I just wanted to edit some typos out of the previous post - and after selecting "Edit Post" I saw just a blank text box. This happens every now and again, and so far I have not managed to detect any kind of correspondence with time, date, phases of the moon, or what I had for breakfast.

Please, everybody! Has anyone else had this experience? Is there a fix?

Ha! there you go! I typed fx, but was able to correct it to fix. The previous post remains uneditable ?!?!?!?!

Nope Patrick I only once had issues loading pics then for some reason a few hours later no dramas, you know its that wookie on the web thats got you bloke......

Jim:

Thank you - I saw the info you provided the link to, but I can tell you with certainty that my Narragansett copy will not accept a .648" ball and more than about 55 grains of powder, even when an attempt is made to press the powder forward into the chamber before closing the breech - any more (and, usually, some of that amount) is scraped upward and out by the closure of the breech.

mhb - MIke

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Ques.)You write the bullet diameter on the paper cartridge. ANS) And you'd be able to stop a read them...select the right one...neat...

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It would surely be more practical to have two cartridge pouches?

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There is a much simpler and more practicable solution though, I don't know how the Brits actually addressed the problem.
During the Civil War Yankees carried different rounds in their ammo pouches- standard and 1 or 2 cleaner rounds. The cleaning rounds were simply wrapped in different color paper. A quick glance told the soldier which they were.