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I’m looking to get my Mosin out for the first time tomorrow and hope to zero it for 100m. If I'm zeroing on a 25m target using a 180gr bullet, how high above my POA should my POI be for a 100m zero? I've used a ballistic program to try and figure it out and i'm getting about .49in but having never really used one to figure out a zero on a 25m target, I don't really feel confident in my math.
I know the Mosins tend to shoot way high at 100 m with the original sight and modern ammo.
I had to change the front sight and install an adjustable one.
If I’m not wrong, i shot between 8 and 10 inches high with factory ammo from S&B.
I have a replacement adjustable front sight from Smith-Sights, so that’s not really a concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovidio
Only if you don't have the bayonet on it. My M38 (designed not to have a bayonet on it) shoots to POI, and my M91/30 does the same provided the bayonet is on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovidio
If I’d go with the bayonet to the range I would be liable and probably arrested.
Other laws here over the pond.
My M44 shoots low, but my 91/30, like the others I tried (always without bayo), all shot between 8 and 10 inches high at 100 meters.
I installed an adjustable front sight, exactly like the original one in the looks, and am happy since then.
From Euclidean Machine in Canada. Very nice guy.
You have laws against having bayonets on your rifles when shooting? Weird
But true...
They probably make the guns more dangerous:lol::lol::lol:
Our bayos are also all registered as weapons, whereas a butcher’s knife is not.
A no. 4 spike bayo is a war weapon, my butcher’s knives with 10 or 12 inch blades are not.
That happens when people with no clue have to legislate upon things they don’t know and don’t give a damn about.
I actually shot the M44 with the bayonet folded and unfolded (had to wait for a day with no-one else there). The POI moved roughly 4 inches to the right, but I can’t recall any noticeable elevation difference.
The bayonet will only effect the POI when the gun is fired by a inexperienced shooter with poor form . If you do not hold the rifle correctly to manage the recoil , the weight of the bayo will hold down the muzzle climb . The bayo has never made a difference with any of the good shooters I have seen ,nor any of my 80 Mosins . Another internet myth is that a Mosin " has the barrel "" tuned "" for the bayonet " and shoots better with it on the rifle . Facts : any movable , vibrating weight on the barrel is bad for accuracy . Mosin's were designed to be made quickly and in large numbers , the barrel has a convex mating surface and is screwed in until the rear sight base is close to the top . The resulting barrel pressure with vary from 25 to 250 lbs [ on the ones I have removed barrels from ] , not hardly " tuned " . Russian snipers did not shoot with bayo's on , a lot of their snipers had non scoped rifles .
It was doctrine that the majority of rifles (i.e. Dragoons, Infantry Rifles, M91/30s, etc.) were sighted in with the bayonets mounted. If you don't believe having a bayonet mounted makes a difference, you likely haven't shot a rifle with or without a bayonet, as it most definitely changes POI (and there has been many attempts to mitigate those effects throughout history, if it didn't have a effect militaries would have ignored it as opposed to doing things like the M95 Stutzen bayonets with a sight mounted on the bayonet, or changing mounting techniques like the Germans removing the muzzle ring). Inexperience has nothing to do with it, the barrel harmonics, and how the bayonet is mounted does.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob q
I can't even believe I have to try and explain this concept.
The problem is that shooting with a boyonet or anything else hanging off the barrel is going to produce inconsistent barrel harmonics. I’m sure doctrine was to shoot with boyonets mounted but it’s never going to give you consistent accuracy...
Now back to my original question.
You should explain it better then , as some of what you said proves some of the other wrong . The Germans were trying to get the bayonet weight OFF of the barrel to help with accuracy , not POI . The bayo sight was for offhand shooting [ Cav use ] because gun handling DOES move POI . But what would I know , I only test fired 100's of 1000's of rounds through 1000's of military rifles [ with and with out bayos ] , scored 1000's of military rifle target matches at my range for over 25 years , shot national bench rest matches , a top finisher in BR-50 , and I build custom rifles . How would that compare to a guy who shoots a few rounds a year , does not even know what bullets he used and how would you even know if your rifle changed 8 inch POI when you shoot 8 inch groups [ see your Gew-88 target ] .
I'm sorry you can't understand that a bayonet affects where your rifle is shooting. Believe whatever you like to believe, I am not going to waste my time as much of what you have said has already is untrue.
You feel like insulting my target when using multiple groups and test loads at 100m, you can mind your own business. I often don't even post my results here, usually only post when I finally get a rifle running as opposed to when I have it fully figured out. With irons and a rifle I am familiar with, I have scored 3rd place in a relatively large (25 person) rifle competition when they were all using scopes.
To the OP sorry for taking the thread in a different direction, I am done commenting on this thread.
Does this help you?
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm
Aloha, Mark
I have also read that it was common practice that when the rifles were sighted in, they were done so with the bayonets mounted. I am by no means an expert on mosins, but when I first purchased mine and took it to the range, my point of impact was way off to the left I believe it was. When I got home that day, I researched it and found the sighting in with bayonet information. The next time I took it to the range, I mounted the bayonet and wouldn't you know almost dead center.so in my humble opinion, having the bayonet mounted absolutely makes a huge difference. It may look ridiculous at the range, but it makes a huge difference at least on my rifleQuote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
The bayonet does indeed change how these girls shoot. When you next get your re arsenaled mosin out, look at the front sight base. youll see the base mounted on the barrel has two marks cut on it.
With one corresponding notch on the actual front sight.
The top mark should line up with one on the bottom of the base, and that will most likely shoot accurately with a bayonet adjusted.
No one has ever really been able to tell me if the other notch is for "shooting without bayonet" as military doctrine was leave bayonet on until cleaning, or riding in a transport vehicle.
Or if it corresponds to a change in ammunition issued to the rifle, IE going from HEAVY ball to Light ball.