1903A3 Shooting Left... Way Left.

Good morning, I have been reading the forum for years and finally had a reason to join and post. I have a Remington 03A3 that shoots 9" to the left at 50yds with the rear sight centered (with full deflection I can get it to about 4"). It actually groups pretty well, just not in the right location.

The barrel appears to be the original, dated a couple months before the receiver, and the index mark is aligned, but I suppose it's possible that it has been re-barreled at some point - I wouldn't know how to tell beyond that date range. The front sight is undamaged and the rear is slightly offset on the receiver but not enough to be the culprit. Rifling is still in good shape, with some minor pitting in the grooves.

I took it to a gunsmith in FL who recommended I sell it and let someone else deal with the problem. After that indication of his character I took my rifle and left.

I think a good experiment would be to swap the barrel, but I want to make sure I've covered all my less-expensive bases first. I was hoping to keep this rifle as original as possible, but if it can't shoot it's no good to me either. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Hmm..interesting.
Is the front sight clocked correctly? I see the witness mark is correct but that doesn’t *necessarily* mean the front sight is right.

Make sure the stock is not pushing on the side of the barrel. Check both action screws are tight.

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Originally Posted by rcathey

I see the witness mark is correct but that doesn’t *necessarily* mean the front sight is right.

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I don't see anything. Am I missing something?

9" at 50 yards is phenomenal! That is hard to explain with just one error. Maybe you are extremely unlucky and more than one of the following applies.

1) "It actually groups pretty well, just not in the right location" is not sufficiently precise.
At 50 yards, and using a rest or hand support, the group should be less than 2" diameter. More like 1".
If much larger, then the muzzle crown may have serious cord wear.
This pushes the group to one side and opens it up. So how large is the group?

2) 9" at 50 yards translates very roughly to 1/10" over the sight radius of a '03. This would be so crass that, if the foresight is so far askew, you should be able to see it by simply holding the rifle in a rest, adjusting so that the backsight frame is horizontal, and then looking to see if the foresight blade is vertical. If you can see that it is out of true, then that is the first thing to correct.

3) As correctly posted by Detroit, if the barrel is binding in the barrel channel, then this will also put the shots off line, but once again, the deviation is so huge that this is unlikely to be the only cause.

4) The barrel is just plain bent. I have experienced that once, with a flintlock replica, but never anything noticeable with an original rifle of any vintage. If it is bent as much as 1/10, then you should be able to see that by looking down the barrel from the breech end. If you cannot see all the grooves at the muzzle end, then one or more grooves are being hidden behind the bend.

As mentioned, it is possible that Murphy's Law struck very heavily here, and you have several faults all acting together! It is hard to explain the deviation with a single fault, other than 4).

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

I don't see anything. Am I missing something?

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I should say, “I read that....”

Good to know it's not my computer!

Another way is to rest the rifle securely on bags or rest with the bolt pulled. Align the sights on a good definition, fairly close target.
compare sight picture to through the bore picture.
This should give an idea of sight indexing and also tell if bore is straight.
Good luck!

"the rear is slightly offset on the receiver but not enough to be the culprit"

You say that rear sight is marginally mis aligned in the scheme of things we are dealing with the accuracy of the sights which have to be bang on within reason and it only takes a poofteenth to make the thing out of whack.
If it was the stock or loose screws then the results of dispersion would be erratic as it would not be repeatable because the weapon would not consistently return to the zero point I know this because the draws on my T were stuffed and it had a 20MOA group at a 100M shooting on a 300M full bore target plus the front trigger guard collar was to long causing the action to rock which I suspect stuffed the draws.
I would see what goes on with the rear sight and as PC suggests have a look at the crown for dents or chord wear also shine a light not directly down the bore and look into it to see if it has any shadows along its length I think that's what they looked for when straightening 303 barrels by eye the shadow being a slight woof (Ausie for bend) in the barrel.

My own 03A3, which appeared to be unused when I got it, required a substantial windage correction to zero it. Would not the proper fix be to drift the rear sight body one way or the other on the dovetail mount? You would think that a radically un-zeroed rifle has either not been issued (post manufacture or post refurb) or has been fooled with by a previous owner.

Ridolpho

I had a very nice 4 groove 03A3 from the CMP. I would shoot 2 feet left at 200 yards. Had several guys look at it and we thought the barrel was slightly bent. I took it to the Western Games in Phoenix, Az and the CMP armourer decided it was bent. CMP took it to Anniston and rebarreled it with a 2 groove barrel. You may well have the same problem.

I had an M1 rifle from Danish returns that was as new, found out why. It shot to the right so I thought it was indexing...but no matter what it remained right. I finally made a straightness gauge on the lathe and checked, it was bent where it's thickest, right in under the lower handguard. It couldn't have happened anywhere except in the heat treating oven when they droop and was missed during the straightening phase. I had to use a hydraulic press to straighten it. Then I changed it for a .308 barrel and sold it. Gun couldn't be zeroed and no one looked into why, just take it off the line...

Barrel straightening used to be an expert's job, checked at the factory before adding the action. I believe it was part of the manufacturing process for LE rifles too. Small bit of trial and error with the right press might just get the left shooting to be centre shooting.

Works for revolvers too.

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Barrel straightening used to be an expert's job

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Still isn't a job for the unimaginative...it's hard and I need a straightness gauge. Not eyeball like the old hands did it. The M1 barrel was bent where it couldn't be moved without hydraulics. I don't have the straightening tool you see in the SA vids...the offset and wheel.

The very old days when they straightened by eye & fixed it with a hammer strike what magnificent tradesmen they were "Spot the woof" (bend) pop it down quilt (hit) it with a hammer on the spot then recheck the woof...........

A dead blow hammer...yes, I'm aware of that one too. I have to work slower.

Have you taken it to a good gunsmith?
I am just running an idea by here, before replacing the barrel I would have the crown of the muzzle checked, it may just need a simple recrowning of the muzzle,
It has all the symptoms of a damaged muzzle crown.

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Originally Posted by Jaxson50

It has all the symptoms of a damaged muzzle crown.

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And that will do it too, for sure.

out of index, muzzle damage, bent barrel, rear sight not installed correctly, bent front sight.
stock pressure.

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

out of index, muzzle damage, bent barrel, rear sight not installed correctly, bent front sight.
stock pressure.

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It could be a real showpiece item - a gun that has everything wrong!

But seriously tj, by now you should have investigated a couple of the possible causes that have been mentioned on this thread. Any results?

Did you guys notice, he hasn't been on to find out since... "Last On 09-02-2018 @ 07:35 " The day after he posted this...

Hmmm... good point... so why are we straining our brains about it?

- Probably because we'd all like to know the answer.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

why are we straining our brains about it

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We end up sorting it out without knowing if it's sorted out...

Well said, kind of frustrating.