Long Branch MK I* qeustion

Picked this up a while back and finally git around to looking it over closer. Its a Long Branch 1944 No4 MK I* Bolt and receiver match (only two serial numbers I can find). Has a two groove barrel thats like new, has dark blued finish. I would think this has been rebuilt at one time or another. The stock has no markings except the ones pictured behind the trigger guard.

The import mark says .303 CAN. All marked parts have the LB mark on them. I'm thinking this rifle may have never been in military service, or it was returned/rebuilt and never used. Is it common for a LB rebuild to not be marked at all? Its a great shooting and looking rifle, I dont think its a amateur restore but who knows.

Few poor cell phone pics:

May want to move the front top wood back from the sight protector (Pic#6) what I did with mine was slivers (Very thin ones) each side of walnut between the bottom & front top wood so the front band compresses more onto the wood and stops it moving forward could use balsa but it will compress over time and lose tightness.
There is another was suggested by the armourers here of a field mod, that you clamped it all up again after moving it back and then with say a thin cold chisel putting a dent in the top back side of the front band into the void in the top wood to stop it moving forward.

Then again if the rifle is accurate as you say just leave it but it would be interesting to try it out without the front wood contacting the front sight protectors....!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

May want to move the front top wood back from the sight protector (Pic#6) what I did with mine was slivers (Very thin ones) each side of walnut between the bottom & front top wood so the front band compresses more onto the wood and stops it moving forward could use balsa but it will compress over time and lose tightness.
There is another was suggested by the armourers here of a field mod, that you clamped it all up again after moving it back and then with say a thin cold chisel putting a dent in the top back side of the front band into the void in the top wood to stop it moving forward.

Then again if the rifle is accurate as you say just leave it but it would be interesting to try it out without the front wood contacting the front sight protectors....!

---

I see what your saying, but it shoots pretty well and I hate to fix what isnt broke. But next time out with it I may try some shims to tighten it up so it doesnt move forward against the sight protector.

What's interesting about it is the "C Broad Arrow" on the receiver or barrel ring which indicates use by the Canadian Army.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surpmil

What's interesting about it is the "C Broad Arrow" on the receiver or barrel ring which indicates use by the Canadian Army.

---

Yea, but compared to others I have seen it does not have a lot of markings overall. I'm pretty sure it has been refurbished by someone. The stock has a couple arsenal repairs. The bore is pristine and I assume the original barrel. Magazine is pretty crusty and non matching but does have the C arrow on the follower and LB mark on the spine where it locks in.

My guess is it was not heavily used wherever it saw service. I was wondering if LB did rebuilds and didnt mark them?

[QUOTE\]My guess is it was not heavily used wherever it saw service. I was wondering if LB did rebuilds and didnt mark them?[/QUOTE]

Short answer is...Yes, they did. But the finish would not look like yours. The finish on your rifle is what it should be for 1944 production.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpikeDD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kpj53

My guess is it was not heavily used wherever it saw service. I was wondering if LB did rebuilds and didnt mark them?

---

Short answer is...Yes, they did. But the finish would not look like yours. The finish on your rifle is what it should be for 1944 production.

---

A bit of a mystery then with the repairs on the stock, the rear sight is a C Mk.3 with the A inside C mark so that was replaced at one time as well. All other parts are LB marked.
I guess the wood and sight could have been swapped around anytime in the last 74 years.

Either way its a nice rifle, only issue with it is the little adjusting lever on the sight is broken on the bottom - seems pretty common to break.

No mystery at all. It's definitely been worked on over the course of it's service as about 90% of them have. The metal finish is still original and not FTR. It looks and reads like a very nice rifle. Canadian owned rifles aren't rare but not that common to find either.

I just looked and unfortunately don't have a Mk.3 catch for your rear sight. I do have lots of spare springs for them. I'm scrambling like everyone else now to find spare Mk.1 and Mk.3 rear sights for shop restorations. The only complete sights i have available are Mk.2 of all different mfg, British, Canadian and US.

A 1941 Long Branch '*' receiver is very early. That's when the "conversion" to the Mk I* began.
However, that one was likely cobbled together out of parts bins with zero QC. The CAI ST A B VT stamped on the muzzle is Century Arms International, St. Albans, Vermont. It's not an import stamp. They are well known for assembling Lee-Enfields by the thousands straight out of parts bins and no QC to ensure they were safe to shoot.
Really only means you must check the headspace before even thinking about shooting it. So do not shoot it again until you have done so.
You can buy headspace gauges from Pacific Tool and Gauge or rent 'em from Reamer Rentals(this is the least expensive).
It was possibly refinished and likely stocked at the same time. The "303 Can." is them too. Neither the rifle nor ammunition was ever called anything buy .303 British by anybody else.

Rear Sight parts. Might want to try a friends company brp
SMLE No.1 Mk.3 Receiver, Bolt, Sight Parts

Later 42rocker

I disagree Sunray. CAI imported thousands of honest rifles, both SMLE and No.4. I bought hundreds over the years they were cheap and in quantity. I still have a few in my own collection. The OP’s rifle is a 78Lxxxx made in 1944. Just as I described and right as rain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Dick

No mystery at all. It's definitely been worked on over the course of it's service as about 90% of them have. The metal finish is still original and not FTR. It looks and reads like a very nice rifle. Canadian owned rifles aren't rare but not that common to find either.

I just looked and unfortunately don't have a Mk.3 catch for your rear sight. I do have lots of spare springs for them. I'm scrambling like everyone else now to find spare Mk.1 and Mk.3 rear sights for shop restorations. The only complete sights i have available are Mk.2 of all different mfg, British, Canadian and US.

---

Appreciate the reply, I'm pretty sure its a legit rifle. Its been in the back of the safe for a while and I was looking at it the other day and I always wondered about it.

All the sights I have found have that catch broken in the same spot so I guess its pretty common. The little tab on the bottom breaks off and it sticks straight out the side. I'd like to find a LB marked one, but all of the ones I have found are broken the same way. One day I'll run across one.

Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunray

A 1941 Long Branch '*' receiver is very early. That's when the "conversion" to the Mk I* began.
However, that one was likely cobbled together out of parts bins with zero QC. The CAI ST A B VT stamped on the muzzle is Century Arms International, St. Albans, Vermont. It's not an import stamp. They are well known for assembling Lee-Enfields by the thousands straight out of parts bins and no QC to ensure they were safe to shoot.
Really only means you must check the headspace before even thinking about shooting it. So do not shoot it again until you have done so.
You can buy headspace gauges from Pacific Tool and Gauge or rent 'em from Reamer Rentals(this is the least expensive).
It was possibly refinished and likely stocked at the same time. The "303 Can." is them too. Neither the rifle nor ammunition was ever called anything buy .303 British by anybody else.

---

It most certainly is an import stamp, I have quite a few milsurp rifles with the CAI stamp. From the discreet small barrel marks to the latest huge dot matrix billboards with new serial numbers. The CAN after .303 means it came from Canada (country of origin). Just like a BSA No4 I have that is marked .303 England came from England.

There were some companies that cobbled together Lithgow rifles, John Jovino Company of New York is who you are thinking of. But century is primarily an importer, they do 'build' some rifles like Galils, FALs and G3s that came in with cut receivers because they were automatic in their original form and could not be imported into the US complete. But Century does not build most of them, they are sub contracted. Some are good builds and some are crap depending who did the builds for them.

Most of their milsurps that are legal to import are not touched by them. Most I have bought from them were still packed with cosmoline. Just stamped, graded and sold.

Either way, headspace is perfect on this rifle (matching bolt) as well as every part being being LB marked as it should. Far from a cobbled together parts gun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 42rocker

Rear Sight parts. Might want to try a friends company brp
SMLE No.1 Mk.3 Receiver, Bolt, Sight Parts

Later 42rocker

---

Thanks for the suggestion.

They have the rear sight leaf but no other parts unfortunately. I have bought a few parts for my Bren from them and they are good people to deal with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunray

A 1941 Long Branch '*' receiver is very early. That's when the "conversion" to the Mk I* began.

---

In addition to being mistaken about he importer's marks, I think you misread the date on the receiver. It is marked "1944 Long Branch".

CAI also imported most of the "War Reserve" rifles from Europe in the late 80's/early 90's. These were mostly 1949 and 1950 dated Long Branch with some earlier Long Branch rifles mixed in. The majority were in excellent condition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shoe303

In addition to being mistaken about he importer's marks, I think you misread the date on the receiver. It is marked "1944 Long Branch".

CAI also imported most of the "War Reserve" rifles from Europe in the late 80's/early 90's. These were mostly 1949 and 1950 dated Long Branch with some earlier Long Branch rifles mixed in. The majority were in excellent condition.

---

Not to mention the many thousands of other WWI, WWII and cold war rifles and pistols CAI imported in over the years. Yes, some of them were mismatched junk threw together (not by CAI) and sold by the pound from government stores around the world. But some were perfect arsenal rebuilt or originals, I have several of both examples.

I'm not defending CAI too much, I have been stuck with a few of their bad semi-auto builds, but I'm glad they were around for the most part.

Also, ANY milsurp rifle should be checked for headspace (among other things) before firing, no matter the condition. That I totally agree with.

The country stamp is post 1968 and is an ATF import requirement. It means country of manufacture, not country of origin as is seen on many pre-1968 imports. That's why you see the "England" stamp on Canadian and US made No.4's returned from the UK prior to the GCA 1968. Surplus military rifles were banned from importation to the USA from 1968 until 1986. Interarms and Century Arms did the majority of large scale imports post 1986. I had No.4's from War Reserve Stores, mostly imported by IAC in Virginia and from both the UK and South Africa. It's just a personal observation but I think CAI imported more rifles from Europe, the middle east and India. In defense of John Jovino Company, not all of their rifles were cobbled together from parts. They purchased thousands of lovely original SMLE's direct from the Australian government in the mid 1980's. There was a pan shop in Montgomery Alabama that bought a thousand of them. I bought, sold and swapped lots of real beauties from those days. They also had a huge quantity of nos parts so they built rifles too. Some were fine and some were problematic. Nothing that couldn't be fixed though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Dick

The country stamp is post 1968 and is an ATF import requirement. It means country of manufacture, not country of origin as is seen on many pre-1968 imports. That's why you see the "England" stamp on Canadian and US made No.4's returned from the UK prior to the GCA 1968. Surplus military rifles were banned from importation to the USA from 1968 until 1986. Interarms and Century Arms did the majority of large scale imports post 1986. I had No.4's from War Reserve Stores, mostly imported by IAC in Virginia and from both the UK and South Africa. It's just a personal observation but I think CAI imported more rifles from Europe, the middle east and India. In defense of John Jovino Company, not all of their rifles were cobbled together from parts. They purchased thousands of lovely original SMLE's direct from the Australian government in the mid 1980's. There was a pan shop in Montgomery Alabama that bought a thousand of them. I bought, sold and swapped lots of real beauties from those days. They also had a huge quantity of nos parts so they built rifles too. Some were fine and some were problematic. Nothing that couldn't be fixed though.

---

I'll defer to your knowledge on the import marks. I thought post 86 (current) was country of origin but I'm not an importer so I never looked into it :) All I know is I HATE the newer dot matrix markings with new serial numbers. But its better than the alternative of not having any imports at all.

I have a John Jovino SMLE, an Aussie '43 that was FTR'd in 53, stock was cracked in many places (may not have come from them like that) but it appears to be all original. Fine shooter as well but I spent a couple weeks gluing and pinning the stock back together. I have seen some of their parts guns and they weren't horrible, cobbled is a bit strong I agree.