All matching, all original (apart from somebody varnishing the stock)
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All matching, all original (apart from somebody varnishing the stock)
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Now, how would I remove the varnish? It looks as though it's a beautiful piece of wood too. Of what variety I do not know.
Walnut? Oak? Maple? Cherry?
It still has it's volley sights and magazine cut-off fitted as well.
So back to my original question. Varnish removal? I'm not a fan of sanding and I think paint stripper may be too rough. I can just leave it as is, or I can use Birchwood Casey Stock Sheen & Conditioner....
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Interesting rifle, a Hobart based Tasmanian Garrison issue. Lovely. The timber is English walnut, and will be exceptionally tough.
I'm going to describe my understanding and experience, and not pressure anyone to accept my view. I've restored about 25 rifles of vintages from 1900 to 1950, so I've made a few mistakes and learnt a little on the way. Your choice is entirely your own doing.
The "varnish" is almost certainly Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. Comes off easily with Polystrippa (Australian owner, local products). Off to Bunnings, if you wish. Won't harm timber, won't kill anything, provided you're careful and diligent in following manufacturer's instructions. Paintbrush application, and when bubbled, you can use a firm plastic putty/plaster spatula or scraper (Bunnings has several sizes) and use it with the blade at 90 degrees to timber grain. Once the bulk is off, you can then finish off with a well worked green ScotchBrite Scourer to remove all the coating and gelled gunk. Clean up with a lint free cloth wet with turps.
Once the timber is nice and dry and clean, you then do the BLO/Turps 50/50 application. Again, and again until the timber won't absorb any more. Clean the residual oil off with a turps soaked lint free cloth. Allow to dry.
You now have a standard Service finish, you haven't sanded, haven't abraded, haven't damaged the timber. You have not detracted form the colour and grain of the timber.
You can leave it there.
Or....
You can go one step further and follow what the Yanks do with their Garands. And it's a great idea and very safe and protective. (Well done Garand lovers!)
Melt pure beeswax (Bunnings, paint aisle) and mix 1/3 ratio of wax, BLO and Turps. Allow to cool and solidify.
Wipe the wax on a small portion of the stock, work sequentially through connected areas, small parts at a time. Say, start on the flat right side of the butt. Wipe a liberal amount of wax compound on the timber, completely covering the area to be worked in one go. Follow the grain. Like planing, work with the grain. Work the wax in until it becomes difficult to rag in.
When done, here's where the sweat, muscle cramp and hard work comes in. Using the heel of your leading hand, work the wax in in long strokes following the grain. You'll feel that the effort increases as the wood "dries" or actually has the wax worked in to the pores. Keep going until you've got a hot and sore pal heel. The temperature of your skin will tell you how things are going. You're melting the wax and filling pores while this is happening, so no stops to cool down. Defeats the purpose.
Keep working throughout the entire furniture.
when you can't wax any more, because it won't absorb, that's it. The finish should be a sheen off matt but not gloss.
This is a natural protective coating that emulates decades of grease and grime that gets built up in Service. It does not damage the timber or the grain, it protects it with natural lubricants from oil, moisture and grit ingress. And looks brilliant.
So there you have it, an option.
Others may disagree and I completely accept their choice to do so.
But as a means of protective, preserving and highlighting the beauty of the timber, I reckon it's the Dick's Guts.
I've done a couple of late No 4's in Birch and Beech. The outcome is just brilliant. Not flashy, not glossy, but stops water ingress at the range and makes routine maintenance and cleaning a breeze. And it's replicating Service condition, only cleaner. (The waxy glossy look of old rifles is grime, oil and wax build up anyway)
Your call as to what to do. And as stated before, I'm not trying to force my view on anyone, only sharing what I've learned, done and like. Again, my thanks to the Garand enthusiasts that described the waxing technique.
You've inspired me......I'm off to buy some beeswax tomorrow!
And the SMLE is a beaut!
I think it looks great as is. Just be sure you have the experience to take on the job. Congratulations on your purchase, beautiful rifle.
Beautiful rifle!!!
Congratulations!!!
Thank you for your very informative replyQuote:
Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE
You have given me much food for thought.
The beeswax option is tempting, but at the same time, daunting.
Let me muse on this...
---------- Post added at 03:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------
[QUOTE=Fruler;455107]I think it looks great as is. Just be sure you have the experience to take on the job. Congratulations on your purchase, beautiful rifle.[/QUOT
Thanks ! It us a lovely rifle and the wood is exceptional. You dont see nice wood like that anymore.
---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
[QUOTE=Fruler;455107]I think it looks great as is. Just be sure you have the experience to take on the job. Congratulations on your purchase, beautiful rifle.[/QUOT
Thanks ! It us a lovely rifle and the wood is exceptional. You dont see nice wood like that anymore.
---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ----------
[QUOTE=Fruler;455107]I think it looks great as is. Just be sure you have the experience to take on the job. Congratulations on your purchase, beautiful rifle.[/QUOT
Thanks ! It us a lovely rifle and the wood is exceptional. You dont see nice wood like that anymore.
Florey55,
Thanks, just sharing what I've leaned, tried and seen. The motivation is preservation of the rifle in valid condition, while protecting. The timber gets a much better look when waxed, than just oiled. But, as stated, it's your rifle, and I'm not about to tell you what you "have" to do! ;)
Can share a couple of photos of recent works to show you how it can result, if interested.
Here's a more lazy suggestion:
Whilst I fully agree with the advice about wax, for such an early rifle the semi-gloss finish it has right now doesn't seem like a major crime.
And the wood grain really looks nice. The glint of the camera may be making it appear glossier than it is - the finish in the last picture in your series [showing the fore stock] looks absolutely spot-on to me.
So... you could try rubbing it and buffing it with beeswax [or another microcrystalline wax] to get a finish approaching the effect 22SqnRAE describes, but without doing any of the stripping... anyway, that's what I'd do first of all...
Please do. I would live to see them. Now I have a question about linseed oil. Why would you use a 50/50 oil and turps mix as opposed to just oil. Or the quick drying linseed oil? The one with the drying additives. Im really curious about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
Thanks for your input Rod. What you suggested makes a lot of sense. But I would, with the aid of the carpet steamer recently bought to help with rust blueing (have just done my P14), love to get rid of most of the wood dents.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobD
[QUOTE=Florey55;455162]Now I have a question about linseed oil. Why would you use a 50/50 oil and turps mix as opposed to just oil. Or the quick drying linseed oil? The one with the drying additives. Im really curious about this.[COLOR="black"]
F55,
A good question. When Service Rifle furniture is made, it's rough finished with medium/coarse belt sanding to keep the splinters to minimum. Consequently, most timber is fairly open grained. The usual method of treatment for furniture is being immersed in warm linseed oil for about half an hour, give or take, then drip draining above the warm tanks while the next batch are dipped. The linseed oil is warm to reduce viscosity and aid penetration in the timber to beyond the base of pores.
The cutting of BLO with turps is simply like paint thinner. A less viscous oil will penetrate deeper and the turps is volatile so will evaporate off. It makes application quicker and easier. You'll note that around the neck of a BLO bottle, there will be a build up of crusty gunk, or dried BLO. Raw linseed oil will dry out, not as quick and won't crystallise the same. Turps helps with this thickening and gets the BLO to 'go further, quicker.' A stock that's been properly stripped and dried out will take about 4-6 coats of BLO. It can be more, depending on your timber. If using neat oil, then this will require warmth and time. You need to leave the timber in the sun to warm up and allow the oil to both seep in and 'dry' off. This takes several days to complete. Turps helps this process by allowing the oil to go deeper first and dry off quicker. The 4-6 coats of BLO and turps can be done in two days in the warmer months, no problems. That's better than a week or two.
Boiled linseed oil has the additives and modified molecular structure that allows it to dry quicker. It's not instantaneous, but far shorter than raw linseed. A pure traditionalist will poo-hah the "cheat's" way of using BLO, and good on them. The end result, when done repetitiously and carefully, is the same. and when it comes to maintenance that one needs to do every quarter, then a gentle light wipe of BLO and turps sinks in quickly where it needs to, pools where it doesn't and dries off much quicker than raw.
Each to their own, but I like the speed and control of cut BLO.
I've tried Tung Oil that the Garand boys like, and find this OK for the initial coat or two, but finish with BLO. Again, choice. Tung is easier to work with when the timber is bare and dry, but I like the more viscous BLO to "fill up" the pores in the timber to water/dust/particle proof the timber.
Off to Bunnings tomorrow to get some beeswax. ( To all you non-Australians, it's a major hardware chain ).
Question : Will one of these bars be enough for a complete SMLE stock set, or should I get more?
Thanks, Lenny.
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Lenny,
Heaps! You'll do three rifles with that The trick is to use enough to fill the pores, not clog up your working.
Recall that it's being cut with 1/3 portion of oil and turps, so will fill up an old boot polish tin no worries.
This is a good therapy session, probably a good thing to do in front of the telly at night. It takes a while and you need a few breaks as the heel of the palm gets hot and sore! You don't use an awful lot in the process, surprisingly.
Let us know how it turns out.
Will post some comparison photos this arvo.
Thanks Peter !Quote:
Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE
Lenny,
Here are a couple of photos to try and show the difference between plain linseed oil and linseed with wax.
The No 4 Mk 1/2 is dressed in birch, and has a lovely 'fishscale' through the timber. This one was stripped, reoiled and waxed. No sanding at all.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d3ee50_m-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2e4c4c_m-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6e06b3_m-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9c7426_m-1.jpg
Now here is a fairly stock standard Lithgow No 1 Mk III* with a typical ex-Armoury oiled finish. The difference is the open grain and the real lack of sheen. In due course, when I've cleaned several decades of neglect and dirt (including abrasive grit) off her, she'll have the same oil and wax treatment too. No damage to timber, just more protection.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e60615_m-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...576c3e_m-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...43519d_m-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4aa990_m-1.jpg
I hope these come up reasonably, as the difference when in the hand is remarkable.
For those following the thread, I'll reiterate. This treatment is not just to "make her look good" but to restore and preserve the rifle furniture to Service condition. The wax seals the pores and prevents ingress of water and grit, ensuring the timber remains in good condition and is not further degraded or damaged. These rifles head to the range and do meet the ground in their work. So best protecting them, to keep them working for decades to come.
Thanks for the pictures Peter.
My, what a lovely workshop that you have.
I have to make do with a tiny sliver at the back of our garage and the wife has to move her car when I want to use the Hornady LNL AP mounted at the end of my workbench.
The early BSA MkIIIs also had the serial number stamped on the underside of the cocking piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Florey55
The cocking piece on my 1911 BSA MkIII
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While we are doing "Wax on, Wax off":
Gilly Stephenson in Perth, WA does a great line of waxes in different grades AND colours.
The coloured wax sticks are meant for "filling" awkward problems" like fine cracks or open grains and you can be as artistic as you like.
Free plug here: https://gillyswaxesandpolishes.com.au/
See also the big green hardware shed near you.
Any support to local apiarists to keep bee stocks healthy and active has to be a good cause. Good idea, Bruce :thup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz