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Within training literature there are various references to personal modifications by snipers to their smocks. I am particularly interested modifications to help with shooting rather than camouflage, these seem to have been modifications to help retain the sling on the arm. Does any one have more details of these or better still photos of a modified original?
Michael,
Many variations occurred, once you had finished the ALL ARMS SNIPER Course to suit the individual, but I have to say none were a serious deviation from the norm.
In terms of wanting ideas surrounding the actual shooting not camouflage, these relate primarily to the use of a well fitted sling and your hold of the rifle using that as an aid.
Parachute Regiment snipers were issued with smocks minus the sling clips as it was these very same smocks that were used to parachute in on operations and the clips if retained in the normal issue ones would snag rigging lines.
My label in my old smock says simply SNIPERS DPM but it is a PARA issue and as rare as rocking horse poo, as only 100 were made for Military Parachutists and I was lucky.
In short it was the selection of the right sling which proved the best solution and I always preferred the SEYNTEX Belgium fibre sling issued but we did also get the leather 1907 one from the USA as well.
Hope that helps
Hi Gil,
Thanks, the specific modification I was after photos was for additions to help maintain good sling position prior to the integral sling clips being added. Your smock is a great bit of kit, I had wondered about whether the clip on later smocks snagged kit, but just assumed if you where in a situation where it might you wound wear the sniper smock, I had no idea a sniper smock existed without clip. Where other smocks non sniper smocks in use at this time and if so how did they differ to yours?
No different at all but with the clips fitted.
Only mod to the issued Denison smocks I've heard about it the creation of a vertical pocket on the rear hip side to hold the spotting scope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne
And that was probably likely on done by a sniper that had been issued with a 1st Pattern smock, which were longer in length. Late in teh war when they were likely issued with a shorter in length 2nd Pattern smock, such a mod would have likely take the form of a horizontal poachers pocket for the spotting scope.
Even then, such a mod would have only been done by a unit tailor, from any remnants of any seriously damaged smocks, as that would have been the only way of getting the material.
Does any one know of a good maker of repro Denison smocks in the uk? Kay Canvas has been recommended, but I am rather tall (6’6”) and they only go up to the 6’2” of size 8. I’ve tried to contact them directly but they seem allusive. Any thoughts welcome.
There are no good repro Denison smock available in the UK. The Kay Canvas ones are rubbish and they are the only ones available as far as I'm aware.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne
Your only option will be one of the USA makers, which might make one suitable for your height, but even then you might struggle to get one that size I'm afraid.
The best ever repro Dension smocks were made by a guy in the USA named Harlan Glen, who used to run a company called King & Country. He only ever made about 200 or so of them back in the late 90's, and did a run or both 1st Patt and 2nd Patt ones. They were about the closest to original as there has ever been made. They weren't cheap, but they were excellent.
When Harlan packed in the repro uniform business, I heard that another company bought the rights to use the patterns and material supply that he used for his smocks, and they are still made and available, but I've not seen one close up to compare with an original H&G one to verify how close or not they maybe.
These are the ones.
https://www.militarytour.com/denison...ratrooper.html
The other advantage of these is that he also sells the material by the yard, so making it possible to mod one to have a sniper telescope poachers pocket if desired.
I'd be guessing/assuming, there'd be as many modifications as there were troopies. If you look at any parade, every one of 'em shapes their beret differently. It'd be the same with a guy's jacket.
The Denison Smock was issued to guys who thought jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft that wasn't on fire wasn't unusual.
Try these guys. No idea what "Size 8" means. That's a girlie thing here. There was a U.S. site, horrendously expensive, that mentioned 3XL. And a place selling patterns.
Denison Smocks
The ones sold by SOF are the Kay Canvas repro's already mentioned. They are awful as repro's go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunray
Post edited.....
Quote:
Moderator Edit: Please don't post advertisements to buy or sell items in our general informational forums, in violation of our terms of service agreement.
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Thanks... :cheers:
Regards,
Doug
Gil,
That sounds a great price, but sadly I’m looking for either a DMP wIth the sling clip for use, or more preferably a reasonable approximation Denison smock.
I am looking for the Denison because in the training pamphlet and stories from my grandfather (who was on a sniper cause) there is reference to snipers struggling to maintain as comfortable and steady sling position should modify the smock decision with appropriately placed button and or padding stitched on to the smock to provide purchase. I want to see how effective this is.
I had just prior to reading the posts about Kay Canvas decided to buy one of heir smocks the next day. What is the main objection? Poor quality, wrong colours, inaccurate pattern, wrong material?
DPM.........Disruptive Pattern Material :thup:
I just spent a good couple of minutes reading back thought the posts to work out why you where explaining what DPM was, then realised my own miss type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
If it has epaulettes, simply undo the epaulette, fold it down the arm and attach to the pen pocket button, this creates a loop t hold the sling in place. If it doesn't have a pen pocket, simply attach a button in the right place for the epaulette to fix onto when undone and laying down the arm.
It's what people used to do all the time
Material is poor, way too thin compared with original, and the colours are not quite right, plus a few detail inaccuracies. They are cheap and perfect for the reenactor market though which is the point, they are not aimed at collectors or someone wanting an accurate repro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheal Doyne
So it does depend on just how close to an original you want it to be. Front what you have said, though the thinness of the material compared to an original may not suit what you are trying to achieve.
That is very interesting and may have been what the training literature was implying about adding a button? I had thought they where just implying that a suitably placed button might catch the sling and stop it sliding down, but and epaulet folded down would make a lot of sense. Did guys reenforce them in any way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy W
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
That isn’t good no know, yes the thinness would I think pose an issue. Thanks for the knowledge Il look into the American $199 option.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
All the best
Not reinforced, just folded down and buttoned onto the pen pocket button, more than strong enough
Loads on that site all the time, all genuine ones in MTP and DPM with clips.