I was going to buy this but I didn't, maybe I should have due to it being somewhat odd.
So does anyone have details on the No4 converted to .410 ?
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I was going to buy this but I didn't, maybe I should have due to it being somewhat odd.
So does anyone have details on the No4 converted to .410 ?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
"HMP" stands for "His/Her Majesty's Prison", so what you have there is one of the few officially converted No4s that were used as prison guard rifles.
for $250 ?
I think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfield trader
Heck, I would have had my checkbook out so fast I would have ripped my back pocket off to get at it.:D
I doubt if you will ever see another one!
"too soon ve gets old und too late ve gets schmart"
Oh by the way, if it's still there, and you don't want it, how about an address and phone number of the shop so I can buy it?
I've only heard of No1s in 410 and they were converted in India. They never turned my crank. Why would a prison carry a single shot shotgun? I'm assuming it's single shot unless someone can tell me different. I can see that the mag well is filled in, so that's a good hint.
It doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.
I wouldn't mind knowing where I can find info on it though.
It has been sold ....... Was buying another rifle and should have stopped and bought this ...... kicking myself now
Bruce
1. You are not shooting at people who can shoot back.
2. It s a British thing
What scares me is some clown is gonna "bubba" it:madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfield trader
Looks to me like it's already been 'bubbad' John. Didn't the Indian .410 conversions have the wooden insert held in place with two cross dowels?
Thousands of these were converted in England to .410 shotgun during the 60's up to the 90's as you could have 'em with no form of licensing whatsoever. Then the magazines had to be................ I won't go on and on but eventually, as the laws tightened people just put a wood insert in place to use it as a feed platform.
Not TOOOOOO tightly I've been assured because you could pull it out and put the magazine back and still have a wall-hanger No4. I see that it's got HMP on it but is there any evidence that this originates from Her Majesty's Prisons. If so, where is WS.
Anecdotally, I heard of someone who had a Boys rifle smooth bored to whatever shotgun calibre .55" smooth is. And Mr Plod told him that he'd have to fill the mag housing with a piece of wood. He did, with a solid piece of wood shaped to the shape of a magazine. On his next visit, Mr Plod was outraged because it still looked too real and didn't apparently comply with the spirit of the new '2 rounds only' law. So Mr Plod told him that it'd have to be 'welded' in place!
So it is not a collectable then ? And it is just a wall hanger?
Someone suggested markings mean HMP WS = Her Majesty's Prison Wormwood Scrubs
I found a guy that has one just like this for sale and he has one marked NSW on the receiver and AMC on the stock and is a ROF 43 marked rifle, any idea on that one ??
As of Tuesday this was for sale on one of the US auction sites.
It had been sold previously and returned as when the barrel was measured something like only the last couple of inches was 410 calibre, the chamber size was wrong and rest of the barrel measured at somewhere around .318 (if I remember). It was / is being sold 'as is with no return'
The WS allegedly is for "Wormwood Scrubs"
Just as an 'add-on' my local gunshop ( a few weeks ago) had a No4: 410 calbre for sale but didnt notice any particular markings.
It did NOT have the magazine well welded up, so as far as the Police are concerned it should be a Firearm (FAC needed) but it was being sold as a shotgun (SGC needed)
Not a .410 but some years ago I aquired a single shot No1Mk3.
Second version, used to arm tribesmen of somewhat doubtful loyalty. While it is a No1Mk3, the Brits had the advantage of the 10 round magazine. The ere is a trough rivited to the reciever and the mag well has a wood block like the .410.
The first version did not have a magazine well. and the trigger guard extended to the forward reciever screw.
Prison guards here are never armed, so it certainly didn't originate here.
Doesn't rule out some other Dominion converting them.
What about the guards in the tower?
Yes, but that isn't a prison John........, well, not any more!
They will probably be civilian security firms these days (haven't been there for ages - you don't when you live so close to it) and they won't be armed. The Yeomen Warders are more decorative than anything else.
I've just checked out mine Peter. No dowels just a nice piece of wood working & glue. Just noticed a) No Ishy screw b) It appears to be not aQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
conversion but an original '42 RFI .410 with a moulded metal fitting riveted into the receiver well.
But the block and Axe is still in the tower!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I meant the guards in modern prisons. Wonder if they will ever fill the position that Albert Pirrepont used to have.
Given some of the scumbags I have read about recently, reinstating that job would certainly cut the murder rate.
He unfairly criticized the American hangmen who faced the nazis the wrong way so the trap hit them in the face on the way down, Personaly I don't think they got it wrong,:thup:
I have not seen a No.4 converted to .410. but I do have a No.1 Mark III* that was converted to 2 1/2 - .410. One like it was carried by my Great Uncle when he guarded an Internment Camp in Alta. He bought it, when he was no longer required, for $11.00 so he told me.
this gun does not have the filled mag but still has the spring and carrier. and is marked (electric pencilled) on the stock band " .410- 2 1/2 " and stamped .410 on the top of the action and the barrel. How many or when it was converted, I have no idea, nor does the Military Museum in England.
This thread inspired me to go-get-it (particularly as John Sukey would rip his back pocket off getting to his cheque book, and for someone of Scottish ancestory thats unlikely I know)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
So for £150 ($210 US) I bought it home.
Lateish Savage 93C14xx
No markings to say 410 except UK proof on the Knox
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What you say about the nonsensical UK proof is ironic. It's already been proofed for .303" and to truly comply with the rules (that they seem to add to as they go along.....) it should be RE-proofed in .410 ....., when it's already been proofed for the higher standard! Just where is the sense in that?
Good value Al just for the receiver......... and having that means you can have ten of them, and bolts, strikers etc etc as 'shotgun parts'............
About 2 years ago a load of BSA commercial SMLE's came onto the market. In the same shipment were several BSA factory converted .410 Lee Metfords which I acquired. All have full length woodwork and their original 303 magazines. The barrels have been replaced with a proper .410 barrel the same length as the original and are not the military barrel bored out.
I believe these shotguns and rifles were part of a consignment sent to Bahrain in the 1930's. I have often seen No4's and SMLE's in .410 but never Enfield and Metford long rifles converted in this way.
Has anyone seen anything similar or was this a conversion just for this contract?
Do you have a photo you could post?
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by winnipeg toymaker
I cannot figure how to load pics on this site. If any member is interested in seeing the markings on my Enfield .410. I can send to an Email addy.
WT was kind enough to share some pics.
Hey these look familiar :D
Yup Lou.....they are your babies. With time, they are looking better in the blonde colour dept.. The .303 shoots great and have yet to try the shotty. Thanks again for the wonderful job you did. Many at the range had to handle and shoot the gun.
The LE Nos 4s were bored out to .410, in the UK during the 60s, at the time KENYA got it independance as literary thousands of them were shiped back here, as military surplus. The Gun trade could not think what to do with them all. Some bright spark suggested the only way to get rid of them was to change them to shotguns so any one could buy them just with a shot gun certificate, no FAC required. All the ex -WW2 soldiers bought them as wall pieces for the pricely sum of £7.50p. They were bloodly useless shotguns.
the No.1 Enfield shotty I hunted with that belonged to my Uncle Bill, was great for partridge and rabbit and each year we got many meals with the old girl. Not very effective for distance but sure heavy to carry.