another no4 mki* refurb project

First post here, although I've been reading all the other refurb project threads for a week now since acquiring a 1942 no4. mki* long branch from a surplus crate. I found one at the bottom of the pile with no visible pitting on the receiver or any part of the bolt. Some finish wear and minor pitting around where the butt fits into the receiver behind the trigger, but plenty of rust on the stock furniture. the handgaurd ribbing is severely damaged in a large spot on one side. Quick google showed I can cheaply get new-old-stock or good condition pieces for all the minor furniture.
My goal is to refurb it to something fun to shoot that performs to the accuracy standards it was manufactured to meet. I'd like for it to also look as clean and neat as it would have during the 40's when carefully maintained by the dedicated soldier it was issued to. His name apparently was Doug.
The serial number stamped on the stock matches that of the rifle. Doug lightly scratched his name, upside down on the buttstock, in doodle-style with crosses inside the letters. I like to imagine a very bored, very young Doug, lonely and laying prone in a hole on night watch, looking over the right side butt and doodling his name with the tip of a round.
I took it home, put the gloves and apron on and started my disassembly and cleaning. It's now all apart but the barreled action. Swabbed the cosmoline out of the barrel with hoppes and patched dry - no brushes or JB yet. I took a peak with my Lyman borecam. I found 2 groove rifling, with brilliant shiny and sharp lands - almost like a mirror, and some carbon deposits in the groove around the throat. High hopes now!

I found several things that need addressed. I'll post as I go, hopefully with pictures. Here is the first major issue.

I began by scrubbing all the surface crud and dried cosmoline on the outside. Now it seems as though dried cosmoline was the only thing keeping the buttstock tight. It now jiggles slightly when twisted.
Fast forward - the buttstock bolt was frozen, but came out easily with 10 minutes of kroil. Tried tightening, but it won't go past where it was until I get the debri/rust off it. No rust in the receiver threads, plenty on the stock bolt.

Is there hope that this was loosened before storage and it will be tight when put back together? I'd like to save it if I can get all the grime off - if only for Doug.

How best to shim the buttstock tight when I reassemble?

On a related note, the recess where the buttstock fits had plenty of rust and minor pitting all over. When I get it all out, I think I will seal it with alumahyde II epoxy paint to keep any moisture in the wood off of the metal, unless someone has a good reason not to.

I'd use a wire wheel to clean the threads of the stock bolt, then use your BFS and tighten it...it'll tighten to tight. Don't worry. Pics...?

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'd use a wire wheel to clean the threads of the stock bolt, then use your BFS and tighten it...it'll tighten to tight. Don't worry. Pics...?

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BFS ????

Big Fat Sister ?
British Fertility Society ?

Big F'n screwdriver!

while the action soaks in penetrating oil - I started scrubbing the stock with Murphys oil and a blue dish scrubby. the grime is coming off...very slowly. You can't even see wood on the parts I haven't scrubbed.
the pile of corrosion on the barrel ended up being a combination of rust and swollen wood fibers. actual metal is seems easily pitted but serviceable. the pile of corrosion was a huge bubble several mm's high and I was worried the barrel was corroded too deep to salvage. penetrating oil overnight dissolved all of it.
I'll take pics over the weekend.

or preferably one of these.



https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...01/large-4.jpg

"...Big F'n screwdriver!..." That'd be a regular 12" screwdriver.
"... dried cosmoline..." Dried or not, Cosmoline is just thick petroleum jelly. Best dealt with using mineral spirits.
"...It now jiggles..." Most likely caused by the wood shrinking over time. Don't do anything until after you've cleaned the stock and see if Nature
re-moisturizes the wood. Just the cleaning will help that. Then, if it does not swell a bit, use either regular brass shims or a bit of leather. The thickness of said leather will vary with how much wiggle is left.
The hand guards will vary in colour and type of wood. Not all of 'em are walnut.
"...scrubbing the stock..." Soak 'em in mineral spirits too. Then wipe off the sludge(that does not get dumped in any drain), then use the Murphy's.

Some pics so far. I think I have all the rust busted off the outer barrel and inside the back of the receiver.

Attachment 105088Attachment 105089Attachment 105091Attachment 105093

Definitely seen a bit of wet...

As for the BFS:

Mr. Stanley, and no doubt others, makes a perfectly good, large screwdriver with a SQUARE shank. These are commonly available at all big, green, blue, orange etc. hardware sheds and most smaller outlets, as well. Thus, you can close your 26" Gedore Shifter / "Swedish Key" on the actual turning bit and wind away, without marring the screwdriver with "tooth-marks" from a Stilson wrench.

If you have a spare stock bolt, you can use it as a pattern / gauge to adjust the tip of your new BFS to precisely match the slot in the head; Bonus points for "hollow-grinding" the tip.

Interesting bit of trivia:

The thread on the stock bolt (7/16" BSW) is about the ONLY thing carried over from the No1 series. No1 stock bolts have a long "wasp-waist" section that stays well clear of the wood, but has that wonderful square tip that has been the death of many SMLE fore-end in the paws of the unknowing. Someone at Enfield obviously discovered "spring washers" during the development of the No.4.

Final carpentry point: the socket (ferrule) is tapered, as should be the mating surfaces on the wooden butt. If the but just flops in, it MAY be repaied by some crafty wood-working. Also, the "shoulder" of the butt should NEVER touch the rear end of the ferrule. ALL the recoil thrust MUST be transferred via that inner face. If you have firm contact only at the shoulder, it will not be long before the recoil impulses ON TOP OF the stress from compression imparted by the stock bolt, WILL start to chip and crack the timber at the wrist of the butt.

I recall that Peter Laidler fully detailed the correct fitting procedures hereabouts.

For posterity - the very large flathead bit that comes with the wheeler torque wrench fits good-n-tight. So my BFS consists of this bit in a 12" screwdriver extension, placed in a 1/4" socket and then in a 3/8" ratchet. .
I tested the fit of the butt in the now cleaned receiver and large bolt. It seems like I can pull it tight with little effort now that everything is clean.
After cleaning the butt, I noticed a hairline crack on its tenon. Here is a pic. It goes all the way to the base of the tenon.
Attachment 105095
Look's like I'll be fitting a new butt. Thanks for the reference - I have read and re-read Peter's article whilst considering my options. A bit sad at losing Doug.
On a more positive note, the finish was mostly gone on the back of the receiver after scrubbing rust off, so I cold blue'd it with oxpho. I didn't strip what was left of the old finish off. After a thorough degreasing, it blended in very well. I'll do the rest of the receiver similarly.
For comparison to above.
Attachment 105094

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Originally Posted by ssgross

I cold blue'd it with oxpho.

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Yep, looks pretty good now...

so you think that crack in the butt is bad enough that I should fit a new one?

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Originally Posted by ssgross

so you think

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If you mean me...no I don't. If it fits put it back on.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

so you think that crack in the butt is bad enough that I should fit a new one?

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SSG - that little blemish is but a mere scratch ( somewhat like the Black Knight facing off the determined King Arthur... The passing of Terry Jones is channeling here..)

Clean the timber internally and externally around crack, and force in some waterproof PVA glue. The real good stuff that real cabinet makers use, not the cheap stuff. Clamp firmly and evenly, allow to dry then finish off flush with surrounding surface.

As Bruce suggests, go back and have a look at Mr Laidler's fine article on fitting Lee Enfield butts. A couple of pieces of buff or brown A4 paper would come in handy in this process, if you need the socket filled out for a firm fit.

Much better to maintain the original fitted butt than play with a new one. You've then preserved another rifle, which is a fantastic outcome. :thup:

Good PVA glue is stronger in bond than the surrounding timber fibres, so no need to go to epoxy, despite the belief that it's superior in service. It really isn't, as the timber is the weak component in the joint.

I let the stock soak in a tin foil boat while I worked on everything else. I stock was truly disgusting and I was bummed out whether or not it would come clean. It must have certainly seen some wet. All the stock furniture was very well rusted.
The rear band was not salvageable. I got a new one for 5 bucks, although its square sided and the original was rounded.
The front larger band came clean on the brass wire wheel with slight pitting that match up with the dings. The handgaurd clips weren'tt too bad, but the edges (as can be seen in my pics) were crumbling. Wire wheel on a Dremel removed the crumbling bits. Sling swivels in bad shape too, but salvageable after the wire wheel
I just finished re-bluing everything - pins, screw heads, stock furniture.

The stock came clean! beyond all my expectations. However the inboard side (for right-hander) butt is considerably darker than the outboard and everything else. I suppose this was monthly of right-handed-doug's sweat and grime.
I gave all a light sanding with 320 - just enough to even things out, but leave all the stamps in tack. Next, I used birchwood Casey walnut stain at full strength on all the wood, with second coats of stain or a damp piece of cloth with water, until the entire stock parts matched up real nice. After drying, I rubbed in several thin coats of linseed oil.

Wow I am impressed at how this old war horse is coming back! My first scrub of the stock took off the layer of cosmoline and grime that was hiding the grain, leaving only blotchy wood underneath. I was careful with a q-tip to stain inside all the dings and deep scratches. Now the color is very uniform whilst still showing it's decades of use and abuse.

Pictures coming as I re-assemble - including the bore.

Here are some pics from inside the 2-groove barrel
Attachment 105486
above is just after the final step of the chamber. Chamber on the right, a ring of fire-cracking at the base, and the start of the rifling on the left.

Here is a pic just past that, 1 inch in, on one of the lands. nice and shiny, but some fire cracking.
Attachment 105487

All the rifling looks nice and sharp throughout, even in the throat - except for that ring at the end of the chamber.
Attachment 105488

The inside crown looks nice - no nicks or scratches. Outside the muzzle the finish was near worn off but cold-blued very nice.
Attachment 105489

I'm not too impressed with the saved pictures from my Lyman borecam. They look dull, whereas on the screen it was quite bright.

I'm interested to hear what the experts think - especially about the "ring" at the end of the chamber.

Some final pics.

Attachment 105490Attachment 105491Attachment 105492Attachment 105493

I only did 1 coat of cold blue on the buttplate trap door so it doesn't look too newish. Doug's doodle pops out well on the Side of the butt.

I was worried about the gap between the butt and the side of the socket. There was none, or at least I couldn't see one. Tried to slide a notecard in. no go. I settled on making 2 shims out of a notecard with holes in the middle that sit at the bottom of the socket, for a thickness of .0176. Now I can easily slide a single notecard around the edge, but sliding 2 in pretty tight.

Lastly, I did a bubba's headspace test. Using a stripped bolt, (no firing pin or extractor clip), the bolt closes on a properly sized case. Stick a piece of foil tape (0.003 thick) on the base of the case and insert. the bolt falls just short of fully closing. with 2 pieces of tape (0.006) the bolt falls very noticeably short of closing.

I think it's time to take it to the range, and hopefully shoot a group worthy of posting one last pic.

Nice save! I hope it shoots as good as it looks.

That looks great, nice job you have done!

I really like the "Doug" doodle on the butt, great character.

A quick side note on shims for the butt. Use gasket paper, it comes in many different thicknesses and is not effected by or will deteriorate in contact with oils.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Some final pics.

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Looks good now.

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Originally Posted by Scout Sniper

A quick side note on shims for the butt. Use gasket paper, it comes in many different thicknesses and is not effected by or will deteriorate in contact with oils.

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Thanks for the suggestion. I knew my notecard shim wasn't the long term solution. There is also a little twist-play in the stock even when all the slack is out of the bolt. I'll probably need to get clever with a shim that isn't just on the bottom, but wraps around the ferrule.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Thanks for the suggestion. I knew my notecard shim wasn't the long term solution. There is also a little twist-play in the stock even when all the slack is out of the bolt. I'll probably need to get clever with a shim that isn't just on the bottom, but wraps around the ferrule.

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Notes from Peter Laidler in 2008

The BUTT. On the face of it, it’s a simple enough job. Just unscrew the old and bash the new one on and screw it up. But that’s JUST what you might do ….., screw it up! If you have a look inside the but socket of the rifle, you’ll see that it is actually tapered and it’s tapered for a good reason. That being to keep the butt TIGHT. All new butts are slightly oversize at the butt socket and what we do is to fit the front end into the butt socket and tap the rear end of the butt, where the heel and toe butt plate screw holes are, with a rawhide mallet so that you start to see witness marks from the rifle butt socket. Then with a rasp or coarse file, rasp away GENTLY until the butt starts to fit into the taper of the butt socket. Keep doing this and you’ll visibly see it going further into the butt socket. Ideally (but certainly on a grenade launching EY rifle), with a last tap of the rawhide mallet the butt should bottom out into the underside of the socket. It should be horizontal to the rifle.

Now for the important bit. The wooden shoulder of the butt, the part that sits proud of the butt socket, MUST be clear of the butt socket and there should be a gap of about 2mm between that edge and the actual butt socket. Have you got that? There MUST be a gap of about 2mm between the steel butt socket and the butt. If there isn’t a gap, then you can be sure that a sliver of wood WILL break away. The butt MUST be tight in the socket and in an ideal world, according to the REME Armourers bible, the wood of the butt MUST (but in civilian circles, should) be proud of the socket by approx 1/16” and the edges should be crisp and sharp. Now, remove the butt and slap on a xxxxing good coating of XG279 or automotive high melting point grease.

Some of you will by now have noticed that there are TWO shapes inside top surface, inside the No4 rifle butt socket. The OLD ex SMLE shape with a rounded step on the right and a tapered step on the left and the post 1942 (?, but that’s what we called them …..) shape of two rounded steps.
Officially, and according to our EMER’s, you CAN fit a double rounded stepped butt to a single round/taper step body after adjusting the wood accordingly. But you CANNOT fit a single rounded/taper step butt to a double rounded butt socket. This is because, try as you might, you’ll never truly get it tight ….., or if you do, it won’t last!

That’s the OFFICIAL party line. But if you think that any old, wise and weary old Armourer Sergeant would allow you to wait until a stock of double rounded butts arrived, from stores in England to Korea or Aden or Malaya or wherever you were, you’re WRONG. It was quite common practice to simply dovetail, glue, patch, peg and make off the butts to get to the type you need. Simple isn’t it.

How tight do I tighten the stock bolt? I cannot find a specific torque figure but if I said to you xxxxing tight would be about right, then we won’t fall out but don’t forget to put the double coil spring washer in first followed by the stock bolt covered in the same grease. I nearly forgot. Before you put the stock bolt into the butt, with your long ‘BIT, screwdriver, stock bolt', check that there is a metal washer inside the butt. You’ll easily tell by the metal to metal sound. If there’s NOT, then PUT ONE IN. And DO NOT, DO NOT tighten the stock bolt up with the fore-end fitted because if the stock bolt does protrude into the body, then you WILL bugger up the rear of the fore-end and rest assured, a cock-up like that will ensure that you will be buying the tea’s and buns at tomorrows tea break.

Read that a thousand times over. The butt is proper for the single-step socket. My guess is it shrunk as it dried out in storage, and will come back after a few years in my almost constant 50% humidity in northern Virginia. I'll need to keep an eye on it though - loosen the butt slightly if I'm not going to use it for a prolonged period.

Went to the range, and like an idiot didn't bring any proper targets with nice big black bull to look at. best I could find in my bag was 2" orange stickers and the back side of a student's old calculus exam (they get recycled into targets when they don't show up to class to get them.)
Attachment 105597
I shot off a simple front rest only, with cheap ammo. The orange sticker barely stood out at 25 yds. Shot my final 8 rounds at 100 yds trying for a bottom hold on the white rectangle. I was all over the place as I screwed with the front sight, but last 3 shots were just left with about a 2.5inch spread as expected.

I slugged the barrel last night. Slug is tight until halfway from the muzzle, then it slips and feels like it moves freely toward the chamber. So, I slugged both ends separately several times each looking for inconsistancy, tightening the slug by tapping it between 2 brass rods. I get .304 on the lands, and .322 on the grooves everywhere. My borecam shows the first half of the barrel a bit more polished and than the latter half. A little more JB paste on the muzzle half might help out.

Thanks everyone for your input, help, and support. It's been fun - no I'm ready to do another one! If anyone wants to know - the target pic is from a free android app called Range Buddy. There is a better one called "Ballistic X" that does more than just measure targets, but it's $8 and it's not $8 better than the free one.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

If anyone wants to know - the target pic is from a free android app called Range Buddy. There is a better one called "Ballistic X" that does more than just measure targets, but it's $8 and it's not $8 better than the free one.

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Thanks SSG, this has been a good thread to watch develop and your thoughtfulness sin advising us on the software is great. :thup:

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

Thanks SSG, this has been a good thread to watch develop and your thoughtfulness sin advising us on the software is great. :thup:

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I must have missed the email - when did thoughtfulness become a sin ?

Think thats a typo Al de :lol:

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

Thanks SSG, this has been a good thread to watch develop and your thoughtfulness sin advising us on the software is great. :thup:

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Ha ha, yes, FFS (fat finger syndrome, not the other meaning this time...) got the better of me there! Happy to wear that egg on face and 10 points Alan for alerting us to the indiscretion! :super: