Will Buyers Ever Get Smarter?

Wandering about today looking over completed sales.
Same old things guys paying big bucks for obvious 'Replicas'.
And paying way too much for some mixers.
I commented on another forum that some here may frequent, so this might be a re-post for some.

I can't get over how the Hell S-T-B takes L&S tweeked receiver dovetails and re-parks with supplied repro parts put in NEW STOCKS (all with the same color) then adds their fresh stamps and sell for + or - $3 grand.
It's been years now and guys just keep buying this crap.
Is this where the Stimulus and extra $$ unemployment funds are going ?
Seems insane that everyone knows about the Riverbank boys but none catch on about Ole Sammy.

I also came across a past sale on a WRA 5,7 rebuilt mixer in a SA stock and M4 leather bayonet that recently sold for $3,225.00.
I looked over the 45 bids it had.
Look over the Bid History on this one.
Does anyone get the 'Shill Bid' feeling from this one ?
Seems odd, but IDK.
I just can't believe the final sale price, especially after looking closer and seeing what I believe is the NPM Punch mark near the W stamp on the WRA barrel.

GunBroker.com - Login

It was GB # 874215734

Crazy Out There........ Crazy ! :confused:

CH-P777

Charlie,

Knowledge is power and you obviously have it in spades. It's a pleasure watching your threads! However, 99.9% of the general public and in particular, buyers, do not. At least until after the fact...

Russ

I recently posted questions and pictures reference a No 4 Mk1 that had been converted into a repro No 5 carbine. After getting some good advice, I passed on it in the auction but somebody still paid $550 for it. My guess is some people would prefer a "perfect" rifle to a "correct" rifle. I prefer "correct" to "perfect" and the advice I get from the members here has been extremely helpful, even though I probably over paid a little for the Mas-36 I just picked up.

Most of us can't understand people paying over 1300 for an import marked Carbine listed as "excellent to unissued". Not correct. Not original. And the unissued means rebuilt.

I shouldn't care but..........
I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me when you see guys spend this kind of money on Replica Carbines. I feel like those of us that know need to step up and out to warn guys.
Here we are sharing our finds and happy for one another when someone scores that Original or that nice shooter they are after.
I know some don't want us butting in, but in time it will be one of us that informs that owner or the next that it isn't what they think/thought it is.
I'm tired of breaking hearts. I just had to wipe the perma grin off a buyers face that just bought a Stan Pro sold to him by a Ontario gun shop that was represented as a 100% WWII as issued. The CC stamp was fake, rear sight fake and the barrel had been used by NPM before it was put on that carbine as a replacement.

Trying to help a seller often doesn't work out either,
A for instance, There was a New seller with no feedback on GB who had a early WRA 1,25 listed. But his description showed he wasn't savvy when it came to carbines. The Carbine was right as rain just having a minor chip in the stock near the recoil plate, a missing swivel and no sling. I contacted him to tell him what he had and the type of description and pictures needed to draw the attention of real collectors. He didn't revise or update his listing. I tried once again this time being upfront letting him know I was interested and that those needed pictures would help me decide my willing to pay limit. Again no reply or any updates. The listing ran unchanged 2 or 3 times with no bids and finally ending with no sale. I don't know if I scared the new seller or if he thought I was a tire kicker, scammer or just sticking my nose in his business. I even wondered with him being new that maybe he wasn't familiar with the Ask a Seller a question option and didn't know how to reply... IDK. With what I could see I had a max payout of $2500 in mind.

It was GB # 865648869

Maybe I'm just a little down in the dumps from breaking hearts. But after reading a post of a guy PROUDLY showing off his new find and it's followed by 6 or 7 replies of oooohhs and aaawwws. Then you see the fake CC and repro parts you find yourself feeling like you have to step in and correct the crowd, thus breaking another heart.

This brings to mind a memory and story I told fellow member here Ole long winded Bobg. Back while still working we were doing a new custom home and a neighbor stopped in with his carbine and 15 to 16 year old son. He said I heard you know carbines and handed me his. He told me he always wanted a WWII carbine in original condition. As soon as he slipped the case off of it I seen it was a commercial. But looking at his proud owners face and the glee on that boys eye.......... I couldn't do it. I just told him it was a nice one. He twinkled his way back out the door. I told BobG about it, who gave me much more than his normal reply of "Yep" or "Nope". He gave me this long winded reply: "You should have told him what he had".
I never seen the guy again because they were heading to FLA for the winter and I can't remember where that build was at. We'd do up to 150+ homes a year. So I've carried a guilty feeling since, wondering how big a let down they'll have when they find out the truth.

Since then I tell what I know. If I don't know I ask. But admittedly there are times this is a Tough hobby.....
It was much easier to tell my Archrival that his ole lady was cheating on him ! :lol:

Charlie-P777

Well, you DEFINITELY don't need to be contacting sellers telling them they need to charge more, if or because of blah-blah-blah. John and I discussed that Carbine and I think he tried to contact him about pics to no avail. He might not have but we discussed additional pics being needed for this or that.

Yeah, I'm totally against contacting people to educate them on how to charge higher prices. Isn't that what newer people do when they get the Reisch book and learn a thing or two? I did it when I was green. And I'm embarrassed about it still and it was 8 years ago at least.
I bought an original early S'G' from a pawn shop for 729 buy it now. They obviously got it for a fraction of that. They made their margin and were happy with it.

This isn't to you Charlie, but new people, you don't know the circumstances of how they acquired an item. Don't try to boost your ego by contacting sellers to educate them. ESPECIALLY when you aren't buying it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tenOC

Well, you DEFINITELY don't need to be contacting sellers telling them they need to charge more, if or because of blah-blah-blah

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It wasn't a 'You need to charge more' type contact.' It was trying to tell him about the needed pics. Start the bid was $2000, no reserve. Never contacted back. I watched it run I believe 3 times. Was thinking he'd drop the open the next listing, if he did I'd try but never listed again. Maybe he sold it local.

I hear you about the Newbies after getting a couple chapters read. Just glad their not reading about brain surgery and having stayed at a Holiday Inn.

Later,
CH-P777

Yeah, lol, no $20 brain surgery books thankfully.

That WP stamping and W in the slingwell made me and probably most people less interested in it.

I've seen the W/P 2 other times on the bridge, 1 was a broken Type 1 stock, the other I seen was just the stock, don't recall what version WRA it was.
Biggest draw back to me was the CC..... but better pics may have helped.

no offense but with two companies making "factory new" m1 carbines,,,,, I don't see the point in going for a mix master and twice the cost of them. Still not sure if the new factory guns are actually worth the time and investment. But hey, its ok for people to be stupid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

no offense but with two companies making "factory new" m1 carbines,,,,, I don't see the point in going for a mix master and twice the cost of them. Still not sure if the new factory guns are actually worth the time and investment. But hey, its ok for people to be stupid.

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A factory fresh Carbine for an inflated price?

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....0&d=1597408369

That's the same as paying 6K for something you could get for 1/3 the cost. Most of us can't even understand why someone would bother. It has no history. It didn't walk the walk. It's only seen a little combat on TV. They're newly made because someone can make a profit producing them.

Speaking of S-T-B's replicas. Last August STB purchased a mixer Rockola on GB for $1250, the sellers description is below:

"This M1 Carbine is marked “ROCK-OLA” on the barrel, piston housing, receiver and
recoil plate. The front sight is marked “RIA” the stamped trigger housing is unmarked
(probably lateral support from Underwood), “A.I.” marked flat bolt, “WM” marked
hammer, “AI” marked band, “PI” marked slide, “H” within a shield marked rear sight,
unmarked two rivet handguard, “I cut” stock with faint “WRA” over “GHD” cartouche
next to the crossed cannon acceptance mark and a circled “P” on the bottom of the
grip and an un-circled “P” on its face. The sling has faint “MRT” markings and the oiler
is unmarked. It retains about 75% finish with no rust or pitting, just some blended gray
patina while the bore is a perfect mirror with strong, sharp rifling. The serial number is
1728883. There are no import marks."

Fast forward to June of this year, S-T-B sold the same now "corrected" or should I say "HUMPED" carbine for $2875, Below is STB's new description that got him a $1625 profit:

"Up for bid is a USGI WW2 M1 Carbine. It was produced probably mid part of 1943. It is in great condition with No rust or pitting and has NO IMPORT stamps or marks. The barrel is "Rock-Ola" coded on the top front. No corrosion. Clean and clear inside and measures a "@" with the muzzle erosion gauge. No bayonet lug scuff on the top. The front sight is the type 1 (milled) and coded with the "T R" on the front. The front barrel band is the early type and coded with the "M-R" on the band. The rear sight is the type 1 (flip) sight and is coded with the "BR" on the right side. There is NO stake marks around the sight. The safety is the early push type and the Magazine Catch is the type 2A and is coded with the "A-R". The
buttplate and recoil plate are both "Rock-Ola". Inside parts are all "Rock-Ola" coded. The stock is the type 2 (Highwood and oval-cut) and is coded with the "RMC" in the slingwell. It has the "RMC" in the box and the small crossed cannons under it. The wood is in excellent condition with No split or cracks, No M2-cut, No arsenal rebuild or repairs. Handguard is the type 2 and coded with the "RMC" on the bottom. Overall, a very collective WW2 M1 Carbine."

The unfortunate this is that I believe that the buyer may be a newer member of the CCC forum.

Hey Wayne,
He's smart enough to wait until you can no longer pull up the Carbines or barreled receivers history on GB. They time out and no longer available to view.
He caught on after seeing we were noting the serial numbers then able to pin up the Before and after links. Like you described above but we had the pictured links.
So now after buying they just put it together and list 'After' the buy listing is gone. In the door out the door, just a longer turn over time now. Gives em time to tweak them just right.

Ever look at his As A Buyer Feedback ? You can copy down serial numbers and months later it reappears. Surprised he buys using the same username, but that might change when cornered. He has a following that's for sure.
Just a shame so many follow his tune.

I've never been able to pin down where they are getting the new stocks. Ever notice every stick of wood is the exact same color ?
Must have bought a barrel of that stain.

He stopped calling them as manufactured/originals years back. Carefully dances around all that with the description.

I feel bad for the newer CCC member.

Thx,
Charlie-P777

I inquired a few weeks ago about a Rock Ola that the other members identified as having an Underwood stock. The sale of that rifle fell through but it may be reoffered in a month or two. Before spending that amount of money, you can guarantee I would be asking for help in this forum.

He buys using other usernames too. When people start following him and outbidding him he'll do that. I used to do that to him and he'd use a different bidder name to try to throw me off the item.

Sam bought a receiver from me and I blocked him from then on. A couple years ago a newer GB user bought something from me, but a couple months later I saw in Sam's feedback that the same guy bought one of the over-priced fakes, plus was bidding on another item. So I looked his email up and contacted him to tell him all the reproduction parts on it. He didn't respond and won the high priced fake anyway. Perhaps it was a buy for someone else. Perhaps it was one of the shill accounts to bid his own items up and he used that account to buy something from me because I blocked him..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketshaver

no offense but with two companies making "factory new" m1 carbines,,,,, I don't see the point in going for a mix master and twice the cost of them. Still not sure if the new factory guns are actually worth the time and investment. But hey, its ok for people to be stupid.

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Years ago at a local gun shop my Wife came scooting over and whispered they have M1 carbines back there. Whispered as if a item had the wrong price tag on it. They were commercial carbines. I've never owned a commercial one but have worked on and test fired a few early Plainfields for friends.

For me if you can understand, we grew up getting our first firearms for Xmas at age 5. Sometimes new sometimes used but every year to come until late in my Fathers life. Not counting the arms we'd buy at the flea markets with our chore money. Or the misc collections passed down over the years from my Brother, Uncles and the Grandpa's. The ones Dad bought us came with strings attached, some we were told to never shoot and some for shooting. But hanging on the wall for as long as I can remember was Dad's War gun. We'd come in from playing War and I remember pointing it out to my young buddies who still recognize it today. It will always be the corner stone of my collection. A long story on how he got it home from the Philippines but thank God for Australians ! We never fired and never touched the War gun. It wasn't until he was sick that I pulled it out and looked in to it. A .30 cal M1 carbine was what I read and that was as much as I knew about them. As his health and memory faded I studied and researched it deeper. Long road getting beat up as a new guy on forums but I relate these USGI arms to those like my Father. And it's not a snow ball but more like an avalanche if that bug hits you. Many use and love the commercials and I figure that just puts less wear and tear on a USGI carbine, so all around its a win. The cost is what it is. But to be honest I know this hobby has cost me more than I paid for my home when purchased in 1986. I could go on and on, but I'm hoping this gives you a better understanding why I for one prefer the history and memories that these particular Milsurps provide. Built at a time when all pitched in and did without for a common cause. A truly United States of America. Wouldn't it be nice to see and feel some of that now, here in this day and age ?
Dad passed away on my Deceased Sisters Birthday Jan 30, 2017 at the age of 91. He is buried at The Middle Tennessee State Veterans Cemetery

VR,
Charlie-P777


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../10/0011-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tenOC

He buys using other usernames too. When people start following him and outbidding him he'll do that. I used to do that to him and he'd use a different bidder name to try to throw me off the item.

Sam bought a receiver from me and I blocked him from then on. A couple years ago a newer GB user bought something from me, but a couple months later I saw in Sam's feedback that the same guy bought one of the over-priced fakes, plus was bidding on another item. So I looked his email up and contacted him to tell him all the reproduction parts on it. He didn't respond and won the high priced fake anyway. Perhaps it was a buy for someone else. Perhaps it was one of the shill accounts to bid his own items up and he used that account to buy something from me because I blocked him..

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You got him nailed Ten,
He knows all the angles. I don't recall what it was but I remember buying from him on Ebay. A couple times, just minor parts. IIRC parts shipped from FLa. Sam Tom Bob, wasn't that the original group ? This was years+ ago. Back when Eddy YuJa sold as MoatnGator and Nick Dailey (SP?) was still around as Folmote (again SP ?) on Ebay.

BTW Anyone remember a seller on Ebay way back called something like Alden33, from up in the Northeast ? I bought some absolutely beautiful stocks from him and a 6 pack of wrapped C tip slings. He had a Canadian connection for the stocks.

CH-P777

I said before that there's buyers out there that don't care what they buy, and that includes fake stuff too. Also, you can't educate those who for what ever reason want to remain ignorant, are too proud to accept advice and too stubborn to admit they were wrong about something.

Nick Daley was Folcmote. I was looking thru some of my old addys the other day and made a mental note of his old addy.
All this makes me wonder what I could get for that early 5 digit Inland that I bought. You supplied me with the correct stock and I had to replace the later hammer spring with an early one. Other than that, everything else was original. It did have the muzzle reamed to restore accuracy, but that isn't unusual. I'm betting I could at least double my original investment, IF I was willing to part with it. But a carbine that early could well have made it onto the beach during Operation Torch. I think I'll hang on the that one.

Obviously some people apply their own negative descriptions of their character with their behavior.
In a completely 'unrelated' and wholly separate issue, Sam, stop bidding on my items. It's obviously easier to cause trouble and tear things down. Just look at the no-character looters every week. It doesn't take any intelligence nor good qualities there either. Same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

I shouldn't care but..........
I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother me when you see guys spend this kind of money on Replica Carbines. I feel like those of us that know need to step up and out to warn guys.
Here we are sharing our finds and happy for one another when someone scores that Original or that nice shooter they are after.
I know some don't want us butting in, but in time it will be one of us that informs that owner or the next that it isn't what they think/thought it is.
I'm tired of breaking hearts. I just had to wipe the perma grin off a buyers face that just bought a Stan Pro sold to him by a Ontario gun shop that was represented as a 100% WWII as issued. The CC stamp was fake, rear sight fake and the barrel had been used by NPM before it was put on that carbine as a replacement.

Trying to help a seller often doesn't work out either,
A for instance, There was a New seller with no feedback on GB who had a early WRA 1,25 listed. But his description showed he wasn't savvy when it came to carbines. The Carbine was right as rain just having a minor chip in the stock near the recoil plate, a missing swivel and no sling. I contacted him to tell him what he had and the type of description and pictures needed to draw the attention of real collectors. He didn't revise or update his listing. I tried once again this time being upfront letting him know I was interested and that those needed pictures would help me decide my willing to pay limit. Again no reply or any updates. The listing ran unchanged 2 or 3 times with no bids and finally ending with no sale. I don't know if I scared the new seller or if he thought I was a tire kicker, scammer or just sticking my nose in his business. I even wondered with him being new that maybe he wasn't familiar with the Ask a Seller a question option and didn't know how to reply... IDK. With what I could see I had a max payout of $2500 in mind.

It was GB # 865648869

Maybe I'm just a little down in the dumps from breaking hearts. But after reading a post of a guy PROUDLY showing off his new find and it's followed by 6 or 7 replies of oooohhs and aaawwws. Then you see the fake CC and repro parts you find yourself feeling like you have to step in and correct the crowd, thus breaking another heart.

This brings to mind a memory and story I told fellow member here Ole long winded Bobg. Back while still working we were doing a new custom home and a neighbor stopped in with his carbine and 15 to 16 year old son. He said I heard you know carbines and handed me his. He told me he always wanted a WWII carbine in original condition. As soon as he slipped the case off of it I seen it was a commercial. But looking at his proud owners face and the glee on that boys eye.......... I couldn't do it. I just told him it was a nice one. He twinkled his way back out the door. I told BobG about it, who gave me much more than his normal reply of "Yep" or "Nope". He gave me this long winded reply: "You should have told him what he had".
I never seen the guy again because they were heading to FLA for the winter and I can't remember where that build was at. We'd do up to 150+ homes a year. So I've carried a guilty feeling since, wondering how big a let down they'll have when they find out the truth.

Since then I tell what I know. If I don't know I ask. But admittedly there are times this is a Tough hobby.....
It was much easier to tell my Archrival that his ole lady was cheating on him ! :lol:

Charlie-P777

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Charlie Painter, you may feel bad having to tell people they've bought a repro, but you've also saved people like me from Sam TB. I was always impressed with the Carbines he sells. Wondered how he could always have such nice, untouched WWII carbines. Then I saw this group discussing him and have stayed away since. So Thank you. You are saving some of us.

If I remember right Alden was from upper state NY. He had someone across the border who had access to almost new M1 carbines . Unissued carbines from the Canadian Army that they never used or even issued. The only thing he could not get were receivers. He was fair with his prices it seemed to me. But almost all Inland parts.

Will buyers ever get smarter? That's like saying will voters ever get smarter. Too many are far to stupid to be allowed to vote but this is America and stupid voters are allowed as are stupid buyers allowed to buy. So the answer is. NO they won't and far to many con men waiting for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SRiverrat11

Charlie Painter, you may feel bad having to tell people they've bought a repro, but you've also saved people like me from Sam TB. I was always impressed with the Carbines he sells. Wondered how he could always have such nice, untouched WWII carbines. Then I saw this group discussing him and have stayed away since. So Thank you. You are saving some of us.

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That seller needs to own his reputation. He cultivated it. It's nobody's fault for recognizing it as though it's a secret people need to keep. You be you, is a the appropriate saying.

When I first started researching my Fathers M1 carbine my first search pulled up Riverbank Armory. I remember thinking these must not be rare, their every where and look at all the different parts they used during the War. Thank God I joined a forum and did my homework.

I couldn't really use a computer yet without help from the kids, but I remember my first online question was "If they (Ordnance) rebuilt a carbine did they re-stamp that Crossed Cannons looking stamp?"
Screams of Stock Humper !!! were typed at me. Luckily a few guys took me under their wing and helped me get started.

We've All Been there.........

Your absolutely right Charlie. We ALL had to start somewhere. And over time we did get burned once in awhile but we learned and we didn't get burned anymore. All we can do is pass on what we know to those who if they are willing to listen will learn and not to join those that are being burned. Just keep up the good fight for them. :clap:

Well Hello Bruceski,
You along with Marcus, Roger M, Jim F, JP-Quagmire, Charles from Bhama, Loren B, Chris A, BQ, Nigerian BobG and Stu took pity on me.
But I took notes !
And made a list of Humpers and Fake CC stamp buyers.

The Ole Days....

If you haven't been caught at least twice, you are a rookie! I got it big time on my first carbine, all original! (total rebuild) Little did I know back then.

Oh Charlie you took notes, very good. Were they in Brail so you can still read them? ( Bad Bruce bad picking on the infirm that way. I'm on the express elevator heading down where it's HOT!!! :help:)

Just don't pick on us feeble elderly. We strike back!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimb16

Just don't pick on us feeble elderly. We strike back!

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WHAT???? Your a year younger then me and I'm picking on the feeble elderly? I couldn't help it. It was just suddenly...there. I swear it was Big Foot standing in from of me. But he was protected. (he had a mask on) Said he was from Michigan and his name was Darrel. I think he was lying to me about his name. :madsmile:

*LOL*

I read about this stuff and it brings back a lot of memories. I remember BrianQ took me under his wing and led me by the hand through what I had with that Winchester with an AU recoil plate. I couldn't believe how everyone would take these guns and immediately start swapping parts and the next day complain about fake carbines. After a few months of me preaching to the swappers, everyone just told me to shut up about it. Unfortunately what I predicted came true. Superfakes, fake parts that were so good you couldn't tell. The standard response was "Well if I ever sell it I'll put the original parts back on and tell the buyer". I finally quit pouting about it and just ignored it. I apologize for sticking my nose in so many peoples' business. A new word solved the problem "Corrected".
My favorite guy was Seth, everything was fake. I loved it when George would come on these forums and try to argue about how he wasn't cheating anyone.

There is a certain type of person who I guess would best be described as a sociopath. These folks are able to compartmentalize their behavior and victims and make themselves completely honest. I think it was because Mom and Dad didn't catch the behavior in time or they were the same type of person. The "Well if I ever sell it I'll put the original parts back on and tell the buyer" people are not like the sociopath. Their actions are not intended to cheat anyone. The sociopath doesn't care about the guy he is screwing over, that box is over there, he's not here now. I have a met a few sociopaths, but I drop them off the Christmas Card list right away. Having anything to do with them just helps them do their evil stuff.
As far as Charlie helping new people: The only substitute for knowledge is money. People who refuse to make the same mistake twice and take notes get over being a newbie real fast. Others never do.

Thank you to the people who helped me when I started. Some of you are still here and some don't even post anymore (like M1-TA, Norwich93).

With some Carbines I got 'weird' about swapping anything that most people would swap. A couple I have came with the wrong stock and I leave them that way. Some I even already had a stock that would be a good fit for it, but I don't swap it.

Pretty sure they were correcting stuff in the 1970s, especially stocks and trigger groups. I wouldn't know what they called it back then, but I came along way after the better faked parts were in full swing too. Riverbank had one of the most returned internet search results when the bug bit in 2011 or thereabouts, and plenty of fake parts shown. But my interest was more about quantity than quality, so I'd buy the import carbines several at a time if the price was good enough. Still, I bought lots of desirable coded parts in the same way I used to buy things like Pontiac Super Duty or Ram Air stuff. Carbine parts replaced Pontiac because parts are lighter and smaller and the value hadn't tanked when the economy did in 2007-2009. Some Carbine parts were cheap then. I remember a spring tube Blue Sky Winchester on GB that wouldn't sell for $550 (not cheap at the time) offered by the pawn shop in Florida that's now known for super high priced import Carbines on there (Pawnman). I bought it. Didn't keep it. Didn't make money on it either. Traded it and $330 for a DPD Inland. Neither was a good deal, but find that Winchester today for double that price just 7-8 years later.

The first fake flip I got in my hands a mentor explained that I was describing a fake. So the fake went back to that other collector who was focusing more on quality and better assumed correctness. Similarly, it didn't occur to me at first why there is a nice flip-staked bare S'G' receiver for sale. It's gonna be expensive to restore, but that's the direction I was going anyway. Now they just make me sad to look at in my safe as projects I haven't completed. Dang, I bet this thing was a super nice original before being parted for an IP.

And still even with the focus I've had on flips, there are flips I wish I knew more about. But I pass along the help other people gave me. But also to note, when I first started all the obviously known first rip-off parts I was sold were from other collectors on the forums you're supposed to trust people on. A couple of things I believe people didn't know until we discovered it together, but others were blatant. It was my pleasure to share my experiences with those shady ones with the better quality collectors.

Since Charlie hasn't been around I thought I would post this here. Seems like it belongs. I just went through Ebay looking at carbine parts. There were six different sellers of type 1 rear sights and all of them from $79 up were all fake sights. Seems quite a few IBM are available. Then went to Gun Broker. Surprise, there were no type 1 sights for sale. BUT I did find a new dog leg UNMARKED from our old friend at Riverfarts. Listed as used but completely refinished. Must be exceedingly rare as it's unmarked. Just doesn't seem to end.

I think that it was BQ who pointed out that all of those flip sights that were removed when the type 2-3 sights were added were supposed to be retained by the armories for possible later use. If they really did retain them, there's a lot of genuine flips out there somewhere.

Probably that order was ignored just like the one that says the gas piston must be cleaned every time the carbine was cleaned.

Last year before selling some I had a pile of about 40 loose sights.

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....0&d=1599487981

You mean your real name is.....George????…… OK I'm sorry. (Bad Bruce bad) Saw the pile of sights and Riverfarts just came to mind.

Me llamo es Jorge. No, that pile was a tease I took pretending to be of AOB lightly staked bolts but with my stash of flip sights piled up like Riverbunk's. "Riverbunk". Why didn't we think of that name for them before now?

Mine are real. I've got about 4 fakes.

Not bad at all. But it just came to me that maybe Riverjunk might be appropriate for the piles of repos? I guess it's like Cheers where everybody knows that name. Just wish all the newb's did too before being burned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

Not bad at all. But it just came to me that maybe Riverjunk might be appropriate for the piles of repos? I guess it's like Cheers where everybody knows that name. Just wish all the newb's did too before being burned.

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It's just not the newbs that have been burned.

The high quality fakes got bunches and bunches of experienced people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

Wandering about today looking over completed sales.
Same old things guys paying big bucks for obvious 'Replicas'.
And paying way too much for some mixers.
I commented on another forum that some here may frequent, so this might be a re-post for some.

I can't get over how the Hell S-T-B takes L&S tweeked receiver dovetails and re-parks with supplied repro parts put in NEW STOCKS (all with the same color) then adds their fresh stamps and sell for + or - $3 grand.
It's been years now and guys just keep buying this crap.
Is this where the Stimulus and extra $$ unemployment funds are going ?
Seems insane that everyone knows about the Riverbank boys but none catch on about Ole Sammy.

I also came across a past sale on a WRA 5,7 rebuilt mixer in a SA stock and M4 leather bayonet that recently sold for $3,225.00.
I looked over the 45 bids it had.
Look over the Bid History on this one.
Does anyone get the 'Shill Bid' feeling from this one ?
Seems odd, but IDK.
I just can't believe the final sale price, especially after looking closer and seeing what I believe is the NPM Punch mark near the W stamp on the WRA barrel.

GunBroker.com - Login

It was GB # 874215734

Crazy Out There........ Crazy ! :confused:

CH-P777

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Charlie this is a Great Post and needed to be said. I remember the days that just about everyone who collected knew to stay away from Riverbank, but now when you see someone new that have started to get into Carbines and they post one and some even show the parts you can tell a lot of them are fake and even tell you they have found and bought parts from Riverbank and it seems like they don't care even when people post that they Sell fake parts. I think he's selling a lot of parts these days. I've even seen people awhile back buying Sam's Carbines and spending lots of money on them. What has changed nowadays that people don't care or will spend LOTS of money on fake parts. It's Crazy !!!

Let's say that you made the decision to buy a carbine because they are really cool handy little rifles. You start looking for one and on some web site you find a couple and several look great and seem to be like new. You've been to 10 gun shows and haven't seen one yet. So you pick out a nice one and consider it a wise move since you've not seen one anywhere. If the ugly ones are $1000 then the $3000 for a near mint one is reasonable. You are so happy with your new toy you show it to friends who also know nothing about carbines either, they say it looks neat and how you got it for a great price. You need a sling and look on the internet and find a guy with hundreds of brand new ones for a lot of money. That was easy and the sling looks like it is new too. Then you find out that all of the parts are hallmarked and .......well, it's off to the races.

In the valley of the blind the one eyed man is king....

I've got an original NPM rear flip sight that I've been thinking about selling. It is a bit beat up, but you can still see the letters RN on the base, but they are a bit hard to make out. The reason I haven't put it up for sale is that some newbie would probably opt to by a new looking fake for $150 rather than pay a fair price for a beater original!

I can't remember the record for the highest price paid for a fake rear sight but it's well over 200 bucks. Seems like they've sold for $265 n ebay.
The perceived values aren't in sync across the spectrum. So a real sight with problems and a clean fake sight aren't necessarily worth what we think they are to someone who is ignorant of what they're looking at. But that ignorance in the hobby has allowed several of us to pluck a gem here and there while people get fleeced biting on fakes.
I know a real IP sight has sold on ebay for $400. I've paid 350 for a stellar one. And I've paid around $20 for an excellent one too. It was in a lot of 1903a3 sights that could've been sold to make it free instead of giving some away. Gave some away last year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tenOC

I know a real IP sight has sold on ebay for $400

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I hope I'm not breaking any rules - here's one from 8 years ago. I have the rest of the pictures from that auction. - Bob

Yeah, that's the one. IIRC, I didn't even bother to bid on it since it had eclipsed my goal when it was time to bid.

Some people just would like to have a small piece of history, maybe what they can afford, maybe not correct, but still a part of history. they may not be into details as much as a serious collector like some of of you, this dose not mean they are to stupied to vote, or are so broke and ignorant that they spend there stimulus and extra unemployment funds on the wrong parts.
I started to put up a pic. of Audie Murphy's WW-2 Carbine to see what you experts could find wrong with it, I'm sure it would be a lot.
Anyway, there are people who would just like to own a WW-2 carbine even if not perfect, and then there are the ultamate experts who want one as it came from the battle fields of WW-2.
Sure would like to see a pic. of one of your perfect M1 carbines, Thanks ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lboos

this dose not mean they are to stupied to vote,

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Not really sure WTF this even means????

Some people (like me) don't care if they can afford it. They're going to buy it anyway and not care who cries about some other person getting a bigger piece of birthday cake than they got. I still haven't cashed my stimulus check and I don't have a pension. Wanna pay my credit card bill? At least I got the stones to make a move on things I want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tenOC

Some people (like me) don't care if they can afford it. They're going to buy it anyway and not care who cries about some other person getting a bigger piece of birthday cake than they got. I still haven't cashed my stimulus check and I don't have a pension. Wanna pay my credit card bill? At least I got the stones to make a move on things I want.

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Not trying to start a food fight, just making a simple comment. did not mean to say that some people do not buy the higher price carbines/parts because they can't afford it, but that a WW-2 carbine might just be an "item of interest" to them, not the center of there world.

Anyway, happy birthday, and spend your stimulus check wisely, maybe invest it toward a really nice carbine. ;)

---------- Post added at 07:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by W5USMC

Not really sure WTF this even means????

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If you read all the post you might, #22. ;)

There will always be the "stupid buyer" when it comes to about any commodity that can be purchased. There's also a lot of things with historical value out there, but is every one of those items worth buying--of course not.

When it comes to M1 carbines, I guess it's about perspective, ability, experience, opportunity and don't forget just pure damn luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lboos

If you read all the post you might, #22.

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Have read all the posts, still did not help me understand your crappy spelling. Does not "dose" stupid not "stupied". Would also bet that Audie Murphy's carbine was not made up of parts from Riverbank Armory.;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lboos

Not trying to start a food fight, just making a simple comment. did not mean to say that some people do not buy the higher price carbines/parts because they can't afford it, but that a WW-2 carbine might just be an "item of interest" to them, not the center of there world.
Anyway, happy birthday, and spend your stimulus check wisely, maybe invest it toward a really nice carbine. ;)

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Duncan Hines is a decent store bought cake mix. Very moist. Grocery store prepared cakes aren't good.
Maybe I'll buy some solar panels with the stimulus check. After 10 years buying Carbines, maybe paying down some Carbine debt would be smarter?

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by W5USMC

Have read all the posts, still did not help me understand your crappy spelling. Does and stupid, corrected. Would also bet that Audie Murphy's carbine was not made up of parts from Riverbank Armory.;)

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Sorry about my bad spelling, sometimes I try to go to fast and make mistakes. ;)

Can't find the actual 3-4 I was looking for but there are still several around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lboos

:)

Sorry about my bad spelling, sometimes I try to go to fast and make mistakes. ;)

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Ever see letters or writing from the Lewis and Clark expedition, or from George Washington's wife, or from the average General in the American Revolution? It has no grammar sintax or punctuation and the spelling is totally phonetic. Having good grammar and spelling is nice but being understood works just fine. There should be a spell check feature on your computer, try that and carry on Brother.

My computer uses "smell check" because my writing "stinks"!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

Ever see letters or writing from the Lewis and Clark expedition, or from George Washington's wife, or from the average General in the American Revolution? It has no grammar sintax or punctuation and the spelling is totally phonetic. Having good grammar and spelling is nice but being understood works just fine. There should be a spell check feature on your computer, try that and carry on Brother.

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Dave,
I want to thank you for your kind words, when you said that I should use spell check I got to thinking, why would anyone use spell check if they could spell correctly ? so to me it sounds like no one can spell right, or why would so many use spell check ? so when someone post a comment and every word is spelled right, you know they prob. cant spell right ether, that they used spell check to make other people think that they can, does that make sense ? :madsmile:.
I think I might have been born at the wrong time in history, like you say, with my spelling prob. I might have made General in the American Revolution ? ;)
This post was made with out the help of spell check, how am I doing ? and for those who need to use it, I don't look down on you because you can't spell.
I'm not running for any office, and I approve this message.

Fast fingers on the keyboard makes for spelling and grammar mistakes. That's why spellchecker is handy.

Take the average class A speller and let him use Spell Check for a year and then try to spell without it. Good Night Irene.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

Take the average class A speller and let him use Spell Check for a year and then try to spell without it. Good Night Irene.....

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So true, it's like putting phone numbers in your cell phone, I use to remember the ones that I used a lot, now I have to stop and think about what my ph. number is when ask.
That old saying: "Use it, or lose it". ;)