What should I be looking for on a Arisaka Type 99?

I found a Arisaka Type 99 for sale for $600.00 asking, Condition wise it in excellent condition 90% or better blue, has the imperil chrysanthemum on the receiver and bolt end. I could not see any marking on the bolt besides that chrysanthemum on the back. Wood is excellent as well. The owner said that it was a WWII bring back off Okinawa, I ask if it had the paperwork and the response of course was no.

I've never looked at Japanese rifles and could use some help in what to look for and the things to look out for. Any pricing info would help too.

Thank in advance, Bill

Is the mum defaced in any way?

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Originally Posted by dodge15

Is the mum defaced in any way?

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Nope! Deep and Perfect not even a scratch

It also has the buttplate that is screwed on, not nailed and the oblong bolt handle rather than the cylindrical, It is also missing the dust cover

Long rifle or short? Anti-aircraft sight wings still on? Sling still around?

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Originally Posted by Low & Slow

Long rifle or short? Anti-aircraft sight wings still on? Sling still around?

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Its about the same length as a Yugoslav M48 Mauser (three of them are next to it), No Sling, and I didn't notice the Aircraft sights; since I didn't know anything about them I didn't know to look for them.

Bill,

The interest in Arisaka rifles have increased in the past two or three years so much and the prices have risen too. Here in the northeast, I've seen type 99"s with ground mums and mismatched bolts go in the low $500 range and few had cleaning rods.
Check again for a 3 digit number on the underside of the bolt handle where it meets the bolt body. This should match the serial number. The same 3 numbers should show up on the bayonet lug. See if the rifle has a cleaning rod and, if it does, remove it to see if it is original, not repro. As was already asked, the AA sights are important. The bore on most all are good.
If all these things check out and you really want a nice Arisaka then the asking price isn't off the mark.

With any Arasaka you want to check the stock for a correct finish, this is a huge factor many have been refinished. You want original, not redone. Make sure the bolt matches. Make sure an original cleaning rod is present, most have reproductions. I like early rifles with a chrome lined bore. It is always nice if the dust cover matches,if it had a dust cover. Check the maker and rarity chart. Maker, stock finish, & matching bolt are a big factor in price. Do you want a collector or shooter? Does the rifle have an original sling or reproduction? Milsurps has a fantastic Knowledge Library with tons of photos showing the best examples. Check out the Japanese section see
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php...-by-Toyo-Kogyo)

There is a big difference in price for a shooter with a refinished stock, fake cleaning rod, ground mum, and mismatched bolt in comparison to an intact bring back.


For prices all collectors of surplus firearms should have a copy of the Standard Catalog of Military Firearms: the collectors price and reference guide, 9th new edition by Phillip Peterson. If you are new to surplus firearms check out my post on another forum :
Buying first surplus rifle, what to look for - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.com

Yep, Type 99s can go at Wi gun shows as dog shooters at $150 to intact collectables at around $800-900. Prices depend on the markings & how rare it is, the stock finish, the matching numbers and parts, the original $200-250 sling, an original cleaning rod, mum intact, bore & chamber condition. Is it a USMC bring back with papers and provenience?
An average shooter in WI with maybe a refinished stock, matching bolt, no dust cover, no cleaning rod or a fake rod with an intact mum could be found around $250-350. Prices be nuts at this time. Prices are also regional dependent.
Best advice look at examples of bring backs and get a feel for a correct finish to the wood and metal. Bring a print out of makers marks so you will know the maker and series, Print out the rarity chart. Then look at its attributes. Go to a library and read up on Arasaka rifles. Almost all have a copy of Military Rifles of Japan by Fred Honeycutt.
Always study this forums Knowledge library. It is beyond fantastic .

Also check out this page and print it out for reference.
https://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html

I also found this post great on this forum:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=42450

Lets say it is a bring back from Okinawa, It most likely will have all matching wood and metal. The bolt may not match the rifle, but it then should match itself. Most bring backs have matching bolts and a sling that I found years ago. A true bring back complete , but no papers can go above $1000. Some refinished or recoated the stock as a bring back- this is bad news for value. If the rifle is still in the box it was shipped home in its priceless. I like damaged rifles with flame burns or bullet damage. be sure to look for the numbers, the numbers on the bolt handle, extractor, firing pin, & safety knob stem should be the same as the last one to three digits of the rifle serial number. I agree with the above poster, depending on its condition especially the stock finish and cartouches, the rarity value of some models, the price might be a fair one to a steal.
for data sheets as check off hints or tons of information see Banzai web page : BANZAI

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Originally Posted by rambo46

The interest in Arisaka rifles have increased in the past two or three years so much and the prices have risen too. Here in the northeast, I've seen type 99"s with ground mums and mismatched bolts go in the low $500 range and few had cleaning rods.
Check again for a 3 digit number on the underside of the bolt handle where it meets the bolt body. This should match the serial number. The same 3 numbers should show up on the bayonet lug. See if the rifle has a cleaning rod and, if it does, remove it to see if it is original, not repro. As was already asked, the AA sights are important. The bore on most all are good.
If all these things check out and you really want a nice Arisaka then the asking price isn't off the mark.

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Rambo46, Thank you for the help, looking at ARMSLIST and GunBroker seem to confirm your selling price assessment. Just need to figure out how to tell an organic vs. repo cleaning rod.

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Originally Posted by 72 usmc

With any Arasaka you want to check the stock for a correct finish, this is a huge factor many have been refinished. You want original, not redone. Make sure the bolt matches. Make sure an original cleaning rod is present, most have reproductions.

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72 USMC, Thank you for all the information! I have taken a great deal of notes and will go take a second informed look at the rifle today if it's still there; from what I have read here I may have a winner. The only question I have now, is how can you tell an if what there is the original cleaning rod? I did read about it but there but the only thing I found was this picture, I'm guessing it would be the shape of the two lugs the orgainl lugs looks to have a gentle, smoother, and longer end taper.

Thank you again for the help.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0x500png-1.jpg

The original is stiff and does not bend easy, better steel that bends and springs back. Look at the patina on the metal. Look for rounded edges from use. Look for wear marks. Looks for dirt , rust and wear to the edges of the patch hole. There is generally milling marks on originals not smooth like found on the reproductions and there is a color and patina change to the portion of an original cleaning rod the was inside the covered and protected by the wood and the portion that was exposed out the storage hole. The original rod is not entirely a uniform color. Notice specific wear patterns, not a faked uniform blue removal with a scrubby. It is an experience thing- the more real ones you see, makes a fake will just stand out. No deep black blue or real sharp images on an original. Too smooth a surface and I would wonder. I have never posted images here, I am more on the surplusrifleforum, but due to a server switch all the photos of key posts have been removed so I can not show any examples. Now consider who is selling it. If a dealer, it could be faked to get a bigger buck, but a family getting rid of a surplus WW II item may buy a reproduction rod, but not go to extremes to add wear and age. They do not buy top of the line fakes, just stuff commonly found on flee bay. So who is selling the rifle is something to consider. Most reproduction rods are cheep Chinese or Indian made fakes that bend very easy due to soft metal. An original rod is tough and has spring to the steel. It' s like reproduction Civil War bayonets. Stick a Springfield into the ground upright with a real bayonet it stays erect, do that with a reproduction bayonet, the rifle will fold over on the easily bent bayonet.

Look at the threads on an original from some on line photos, look at the reproductions on eBay. Look at how the original rod end shape is to the threads and how long the section of threaded steel is. Look at how the top end misshaped formed: rounded or sharp. Some rods have Japanese letters as a makers mark. I no longer remember which ones. Now, there are some machinists that make excellent, strong reproductions and some age these so it is difficult to tell. They are so good you will not know. You would find these at high price dealers or auction houses that put parts back on rifles to get top buck. There are more fakers of M1 carbines and K98 Mausers, than Japanese rifles.

Here are some pictures of originals from Libertytreecollectors. nice photos.
https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...idproduct=2503

In contrast here is an IMA cheep reproduction that bends like a coat hanger:
https://www.ima-usa.com/products/jap...nt=26157213829

Another fake ,but it shows the ends and threads:
https://www.desertcart.com.kw/produc...9-cleaning-rod

There is no tutorial on Arasaka Cleaning rods, but here is one about K98 rods that might give you some clues what to look for: threads, patina, edges, blue>
Original German WWII Era 10 & 12 Inch Cleaning Rods

If from a private person and a rare maker with original stock, matching; if you can get it at $500 grab it. Risk it. Bring backs are getting hard to find.

If it is a nice arsenal like Jinsen (star mark) or Hotel-Mukden (circle with 3 spokes inside a circle ) it's really nice. And be sure it was not rechambered to 30-06.

If you feel bad about the price , this will make it seem better. See what they get for an airsoft replica:confused::confused::confused:

Air soft, Type 38 Arisaka - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.com

I guess that a 99 at that price could be worth a try.
If the rifle and mechanics are all original, that might be worth the amount asked.
Here the 99’s are rare and fairly expensive.
The repro rod would be a detail, maybe to be “corrected” at some time.
I missed a couple of those a few years ago and am still weeping.

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Originally Posted by 72 usmc

If you feel bad about the price , this will make it seem better. See what they get for an airsoft replica

Air soft, Type 38 Arisaka - Surplus Rifle Forum - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.com - Index page

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That is NUTS! 2K! one heck of an Air Soft

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Originally Posted by 72 usmc

If from a private person and a rare maker with original stock, matching; if you can get it at $500 grab it. Risk it. Bring backs are getting hard to find.

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Just back from looking at it again. Pictures attached

First I was wrong the MUM has an X across it, my mistake when I first looked at it - SO I guess the Emperor can rest well.

Looks like a Arsenal/Subcontractor :Toyo Kogyo Period of Operation1939-1945 (from looking at the links 72 USMC sent me)

- Missing the cleaning rod
- Missing the dust cover
- Missing the monopod but the Barrel band with the monopod block is there.
- Has the Airplane Sites intact clean no missing parts and is not bent
- The bolt has Kanji but my eyes are so back I can't figure out what the look like; no Numbers at all on the bolt that I could see
- No number on the extractor
- Stock doesn't look like it was messed with and if it was it was a long time ago. Maybe you guys can tell?
- The tapered front site is intact with the "ears" no bends or damage
- Barrel is dirty-dusty but the rifling looks strong.

Its a consignment gun from some elderly couple in their 80's, supposedly the son of the soldier who brought it home. They won't take less than $600.00 (I think sentimental value here)

They are also selling an RFI "Jungle Carbine" there for $599.99 and a couple overpriced Yugo M48's, and a WAY overpriced ArmaLite AR-17 12 gauge Shotgun

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I have the feeling that it could be sporterized...
Too much barrel exposed.
I’m no expert, but something’s odd.

That's a good sign! Another good sign is if the bolt (3 digit number marked on the flat part of the handle where it connects to the bolt body) matches the serial number on the receiver. Look at the screws on the bottom of the rifle that are holding the action in the stock. They were staked at the factory. If they are still staked, that is a good indicator that the gun is original. If they are un-staked, then the gun has been dismantled at some time. If the owner will let you, take the bolt apart and check the 3-digit number on the base of the safety knob. If it matches the bolt and the receiver, great! Does it have the anti-aircraft sights (fold down arms)? A picture of the serial number would really help since Arisakas are similar to German Mausers in that as the war went on, they were stripped of features and workmanship changed. They started with excellent workmanship, anti-aircraft sights, a monopod, dust cover, rounded bolt handle and engraved safety knob. My 1941 Type 99 is a beautiful rifle, but none of the numbers match, it is a parts gun, and the stock has been sanded slightly. It functions perfectly and shoots great. I paid $350 for it about a year ago at a gun show. My 1945 Arisaka Type 99 "last ditch" rifle looks nothing like my 1941 rifle. It is crude, rattles a lot, and looks pretty scary. It also functions perfectly and shoots great. It also has all matching numbers. I got lucky and picked it up for $75 from a dealer who thought it was too ugly to be of any value. If you provide a picture of the serial number, several people here can tell you what features your gun should have on it and the level of craftsmanship it should display. A really important picture to get is the symbol located at the start of the serial number since it will tell you the series number for your rifle and indicates when it was manufactured. $600 sounds a little high unless it is an all-matching numbers rifle. Hope that helps!

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Originally Posted by Ovidio

I have the feelingthat it could be sporterized...
Too much barrel exposed.

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I think you are right! I'm looking at other pictures and comparing them.. Crap-O-la.... Boy if it is, I am sure glad I consulted the Forum first...

Your pictures popped up right after I sent my initial response! $600 is way too much for that gun. It is a late 1942/early 1943 rifle and should have the full length stock and upper handguard. Someone has cut it down significantly and you can see that the front barrel band/nose piece does not fit properly. I have never heard of "duffle cut" Arisakas but maybe someone with more expertise has? To return it to original would be rather expensive since the stocks are had to come by. Its too bad because other than that, it looks like the parts are all in pretty good shape.

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Originally Posted by Singer B

To return it to original would be rather expensive since the stocks are had to come by. Its too bad because other than that, it looks like the parts are all in pretty good shape.

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Yeah looks like stocks are running between $350.00 and $450.00, condition and year made being the factor. I'm gonna let them know and offer $250.00 tops..

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Originally Posted by usabaker

72 USMC, Thank you for all the information! I have taken a great deal of notes and will go take a second informed look at the rifle today if it's still there; from what I have read here I may have a winner. The only question I have now, is how can you tell an if what there is the original cleaning rod? I did read about it but there but the only thing I found was this picture, I'm guessing it would be the shape of the two lugs the orgainl lugs looks to have a gentle, smoother, and longer end taper.

Thank you again for the help.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0x500png-1.jpg

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Thank you for this!! I did not know this so I definitely learned something today! I checked my 99 and damn, I have an original cleaning rod! Made my whole day!

I Just want to thank ALL of you on the FOURM for the help with this, it could have been a costly mistake. This is one of the reasons I love and will always support MISURPS. Now that I have the Arisaka bug and know some stuff I guess I'll be on the search for one....

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Singer B

Originally Posted by usabaker
72 USMC, Thank you for all the information! I have taken a great deal of notes and will go take a second informed look at the rifle today if it's still there; from what I have read here I may have a winner. The only question I have now, is how can you tell an if what there is the original cleaning rod? I did read about it but there but the only thing I found was this picture, I'm guessing it would be the shape of the two lugs the orgainl lugs looks to have a gentle, smoother, and longer end taper.

Thank you again for the help.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0x500png-1.jpg
Thank you for this!! I did not know this so I definitely learned something today! I checked my 99 and damn, I have an original cleaning rod! Made my whole day!

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That's AWESOME!!!

The stock is cut, The back end of the stock with the butt pad looks the wrong color/stain is too thick a redcoat on a chopped stock. I wonder if it might not be rechambered. Try a dummy. Not a live round in the building to see what chambers 7.7 or 30-06. I would run away from this dog.:thdown::thdown: It is best to buy the best specimen you can afford. To me it spells J, U, ,N, K,= junk

:yikes::yikes::move eek:

Is the JC real of a put together? They are fun to shoot. I got 2 of every production year. Maybe that is a better route if it is a real JC stamped RFI???

See other forums old post. Pictures were redone due to a crash so they are near the bottom of page 1
VISUAL REFERENCE GUIDE - Rifle No5 Mk1 Fazakerley - Surplus Rifle Forum - www.surplusrifleforum.com



You do not want an Ishapore RFI 7.62 NATO JC . Get an original or one with a RFI stamp on the strap. That Link has lots of sub links to fake JCs

A real Enfield Jungle carbine is a hoot to shoot. If on blood thinners, its heavy kick will turn your shoulder black & blue after 15 -20 shots of .303

Watch for faked JCs

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Originally Posted by 72 usmc

I would run away from this dog. It is best to buy the best specimen you can afford. To me it spells J, U, ,N, K,= junk ...

Is the JC real of a put together?

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Yeah, I told them that I'm not interested in the rifle anymore unless they were interested in $200.00 or $250.00.

Thank you again 72 USCM you and the others here saved me a clutch of money and a headache :)

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by 72 usmc

original or one with a RFI stamp on the strap.

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The rifle did have a RFI stamp in the right place, BUT the rifle was WAY too clean, had to have been a replacement stock it was so clean. It was a stark contrast to the two Yugo M48's that were just beat up, asking near $480.00 for, I didn't even bother asking to look at them.