1933 SA 1903

Hi All:

I recently picked up a SA 1903 from an estate auction. I wasn't able to really get a good idea from the seller about what was being sold , but decided to roll the dice anyways. Now that the dice has been rolled, and said rifle is in my paws, what exactly did I get?

I can tell from the S/N (#1428271) the rifle would be from 1933, which would match the barrel.

The stock is in really good shape, but has been sporterized (I hate that). It has only one cartouche which is a barely visible "RA??"; no other markings. I'm not 100% sure that this is the correct stock for the your produced.

I couldn't make out any marks on the bolt body, which has a really chalky black coating (parkerized or paint?). The is a "u" stamp on the front brand. Finally, this has a Marbles rear sight, which I'm assuming is an aftermarket upgrade.

Anybody got any thoughts on this one? Is it worth anything? I was thinking about replacing the stock, rear sights, etc., so it would be closer to factory original.

Thanks in advance

Mark

You need the 1903 leaf sight (I have two for sale on another forum)

Stock has a rebuild stamp.

If the bore is nice it is worth restoration with a NS bolt and stock, pre WW2 handguard tooAttachment 112129

The barreled receiver is still intact. You have a good building block.

Nothing jumps out as being National Match, but it wouldn't hurt to look at the muzzle crown for a star stamp.

I have a NM 1903 close to your serial number, besides checking the muzzle for the star marking, the barrel has a star gage number and heat lot code. You should check for these marking and a SRS check for additional informationAttachment 112130Attachment 112131Attachment 112132Attachment 112133Attachment 112134

1903 #1427281 is not on my SRS list. Many authentic NM rifles are not on the list.
The buttplate is not a NM. I believe 1903 NM rifles from the 1930s came with type C
stocks. It would be worthwhile to check for NM features as posters above have
mentioned.

Quoting John Beard on another 1933 '03 Springfield an individual was asking about some time ago:

"I will answer your question for you. Springfield Armory 1933 and 1934 production was loose barrels and loose receivers which were used to replace barrels and low number receivers turned in for overhaul. Because 1933 and 1934 barrels and receivers were not mated at the time of manufacture, serial numbers and barrel dates can be mismatched by months. In the gunbroker rifle case, the barrel date is mismatched by no more than three months, which is not unusual in the least. I will also mention that, other than a few DCM sales rifles, no National Match rifles were manufactured in 1933, 1934, and 1935."

My personal amateur experience searching for National Match rifles certainly mirrors John's expert knowledge. There was a large batch of NM rifles made in 1932 with 1.40 serial numbers. The early block would have been service rifle configuration, but then production switched largely to sporters. Then until the 1.45 serial numbers, we don't see any real, Springfield produced National Match rifles.

National Match "style" rifles with serial numbers in between do exist as Springfield Armory sold to the public all of the components necessary to build one. I have one such rifle, and the original owner told me the gunsmith of the State Rifle Team built several backup rifles for team member use in the 1930s. Furthermore, its to uncommon to see star gauge barrels with 33 and 34 dates on standard service rifles that show no evidence of having ever been anything other than standard service rifles.

Production of receivers in late 1933 and 1934 was very high. These numbers pop up quite often. They are usually of high quality with nice finishing and sometimes polishing.

Looking at this particular rifle, with that rear sight, the customization of the stock, and the front barrel band, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's how this rifle started life, when a home gunsmith bought the components and built himself a hunting rifle.

Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate all of your comments.

Based on what I can tell, and everything that I'm learning, this isn't an NM rifle. That said, it's in very good condition overall (bore is shiny, action is tight, barrel hasn't been cut, metal parts are clean, etc.), so I think it just needs to be returned to its original configuration.

FWITW, this rifle only cost $250 in an estate sale, so I don't mind dropping some money on restoring it. Here's what I've got on my "repair" or "replace" list so far.

1. Stock needs to be replaced with a type "S" stock
2. Upper handguard needed
3. Upper band needed
4. Lower band needs replaced
5. Lower band spring needed
6. Rear sight needs to be replaced
7. Front sight blade needs to be replaced
8. Bolt body needs to be replaced with early "NS" type

Any ideas or comments? I'd like to make sure any replacement parts are period correct, with the proper markings, so I don't end up with a "Frankengun". I'm pretty ignorant with these rifles, but getting better by the day, so please be patent as I learn.

Thanks again

Mark

I thought I had replied to this thread, but don't see it now.

This likely isn't a NM, but I will still restore, as it didn't cost anything, and it's in pretty good shape overall. Here's what I have currently on my parts list:

1. Replace stock with "S" Stock
2. Handguard needed
3. Upper band needed
4. Lower band replace
5. Lower band spring needed
6. Rear sight replace
7. Front sight blade replace
8. Bolt body "NS" needed.

Any other thoughts or ideas? I'd like to keep this as period correct and parts correct as possible.

Thanks in advance. I'm new to 1903s, and all the varieties and flavors, so please bear with me as I learn more.

Mark

Add up the restore cost and decide. It might be cheaper to buy a complete rifle.

This was from an estate sale for $225, so I've got a lot of room in my budget. As long as I don't creep over $500 more, I'd be happy.

Mrandig, You should come out fine (dollar wise) on this restoration. You could replace the forearm on that stock. Dupage has them for $40.
Here's the link: 1903/1903A3 Archives | Dupage Trading Company Salt Flat

Agreed! That’s a fine price. You have a lot of room dollar wise to get the parts you need.

I’m jealous...mainly because I have nice C-stock sitting here waiting for me to find a rifle just like this!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salt Flat

Mrandig, You should come out fine (dollar wise) on this restoration. You could replace the forearm on that stock. Dupage has them for $40.
Here's the link: 1903/1903A3 Archives | Dupage Trading Company Salt Flat

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I went to Dupage Trading and ordered the forearm replacement section. At $40, why not give it a try. I guess we'll see how good my woodworking skills are.

Tempted to do another thread showing the step-by-step on how this turns out. Anybody interested?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrandig

Likely not NM, but will restore
I thought I had replied to this thread, but don't see it now.

This likely isn't a NM, but I will still restore, as it didn't cost anything, and it's in pretty good shape overall. Here's what I have currently on my parts list:

1. Replace stock with "S" Stock
2. Handguard needed
3. Upper band needed
4. Lower band replace
5. Lower band spring needed
6. Rear sight replace
7. Front sight blade replace
8. Bolt body "NS" needed.

Any other thoughts or ideas? I'd like to keep this as period correct and parts correct as possible.

Thanks in advance. I'm new to 1903s, and all the varieties and flavors, so please bear with me as I learn more.

Mark

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Update: Between Dupage, Numrich and Ebay, I've purchased all parts except for the rear sight and NS bolt body. Didn't go for a replacement stock, but rather a replacement forend, that I'll have to glue/dowel in my woodshop. Everything came to a total of $150, so the updated total for this piece is now $225 + $150 = $375.

We are always interested in a step-by-step restoration/fixing/repair/etc. With many pictures.

Mrandig, I've tried splicing several ways and found this to work best for me. It helps if you have a mill or router. Hardwood dowels work too. Salt Flat

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The NS marked bolt body might be a difficult thing to attain. You may do well to get any bolt body with a rearward swept handle.

Salt Flat, that's a serious-I-mean-business splice!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salt Flat

Mrandig, I've tried splicing several ways and found this to work best for me. It helps if you have a mill or router. Hardwood dowels work too. Salt Flat

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Wow Salt Flat. I'm super impressed. That's some nice work

I was going to just use dowels, but I do have a mill and a router, so I may have to copy your work once the forend section arrives.

All parts are in! I've got at least 10 projects on the go, but let's see if we can knock this out over Thanksgiving week. What does everyone think - should this be an entirely new thread or just keep this on here?

Up to you I guess but it's the rifle that started the thread? Why change...

Good point Jim. Let's keep it here.

Splicing that forend has me more anxious than I expected. We'll see how this goes tomorrow.

Well, after sleeping in today and a bit too much coffee, I decided to get this show on the road.

Here's another pic of the rifle in all of its original (to me) glory.

Yes, there's a Corvette in the background. Yes, I should have a cover on it.

Attachment 112462

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrandig

a Corvette in the background. Yes, I should have a cover on it.

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Naw, look at it as an old Chevvy. What could possibly happen to it?

Attachment 112464Attachment 112463

Here's the new parts.

The handguard is from eBay. I think it was $25.00 new. Fits fine.

The forend piece of from Dupage trading. It's a little rough, but fine for this project. It was $40.00.

Metal parts of from Numrich. This include upper and lower bands, spring, sight and sight cover, stacking swivel, etc. The entire order was around $80.00

Disassembly time.

Definitely not a NM, but that's fine. I didn't know pine needles were used as bedding. I don't think it's been apart in a long time. I'll leave the rear swivel and butt plate in place, at least for now, as they're not in the way.

Attachment 112465Attachment 112466

Time to hack the forend piece. I'm going to leave this as long as I can, just in case I need to shorten it later. The reverse doesn't work very well. I'm cutting this as close to the transition as I can, so I can hide the seam with the lower band after I glue the pieces together.

For this cut I'll use the bandsaw, with a 5/8" blade, which is pretty wide, but good for straight cuts. Keeping this cut straight is somewhat of a challenge, as the forend has a slight taper on the sides, and wants to rotate. The other end will prove to be way worse...

Attachment 112476Attachment 112467Attachment 112475

Now its time to hack the stock. It's long, relatively heavy, and since it's hand worked, it's not laser accurate in its dimensions to start with. I'm also going to leave this piece long, so I can take off more if I need to get it squared and right with the forend. I'm probably leaving 3/16" or more on each piece.

If I do this correctly, the joint will be at the transition, and sit under the lower band, making it invisible.

Attachment 112468

Needless to say, I don't like how this turned out on the bandsaw. It started shifting while I was cutting. Safety issues aside, it's just hard to cut while the wood is teetering off the side of the table.

When modern shop equipment fails to do the job, it's time to break out the hand tools. These Lie-Nielson hand planes are some of my most prized possessions (and cost a small fortune). I'm going to use a #62 low angle jack plane.

This is a special jig I made for planning, on another project. I'm going to see if I can use this jig and the hand plane to get this cut end squared up.

Attachment 112473

After a few swipes with the jack plane, the cut end of the stock seems like it's closer to straight. Not exact, but close. I intentionally left it long, thankfully, so I'll use a disk sander tomorrow to take a little more off both the stock and forend, and see if I can get them trued and fitted together with as tight a seam as possible.

Attachment 112474

As huge as it is, I might have been tempted to use my compound miter saw to do that cut as it has the support on the sides for material. I could still cut long and it would be straight as long as I set up correctly. My band saw would give me the same trouble as yours. All seems to have turned out well, I was sure it would.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

As huge as it is, I might have been tempted to use my compound miter saw to do that cut as it has the support on the sides for material. I could still cut long and it would be straight as long as I set up correctly. My band saw would give me the same trouble as yours. All seems to have turned out well, I was sure it would.

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Thanks Jim - I appreciate the vote of confidence. The bandsaw worked fine for the forend; next time I do a stock I'll be using my compound miter saw. It was just too tricky.

Last report, I had just cut the stock and was going to take it to the disc sander.

Here's the disk sander. With lots of plastic and only a 6" disk, this is kind of the "easy bake oven" of my shop tools, but it's good enough for this project. It actually works remarkably well and I would recommend it.

Attachment 112501

Here's the stock and forend after sanding and clean up. Leaving 1/16" extra on the forend and 1/16" extra on the stock, I get 1/8" of material, which makes up for the material loss from the bandsaw blade.

First is below and after pics of stock:

Attachment 112505Attachment 112502

Finished forend:

Attachment 112503

With the forend and the stock both sanded square, let's see what these look like. Because of their shape, they can be hard to keep together for a picture, but I'll do my best.

Attachment 112506Attachment 112507Attachment 112508

So far so good... Since the original forend and replacement were both hand formed, there seems to be a little discrepancy on sizing. The new one isn't as wide, so there's a small step right in the transition. I'll cross that bridge later once I figure out how to put it all together. I may have a rasp laying around that will do the trick.

The next question is how to join the replacement forend and the stock?

I was thinking a router. Routers are fun. They do make on hell of a mess however.

Attachment 112509

Since nothing about this wood is square or parallel, I finally decided against this approach. I probably could have made it work, but I'm not even sure I have an up-cut bit the right size. I need to figure out how to keep the pieces in alignment, then once I had made to cut, then I'd have to make and fit an insert, etc., etc., etc.

The approach I finally settled on was using pair of dowels. These are 1/4" diameter and 1.5" long. It just seemed a little easier, and as an added bonus, I already had these sitting on the shelf.

I didn't take a pic of how I measure this out unfortunately, but you measure top-to-bottom, then left-to-right, to find the center of the wood. Once you have found the center, measure halfway from center to the right and mark the first dowel, halfway from center to the left and mark the second dowel.

Attachment 112510

Once I have my marks made on the wood, I'm going to use a dowel jig.

The stock is clamped to the end of my workbench, and the Makita box is there intentionally to keep everything from sliding down when force is applied. I could have used a drill stop, but I couldn't remember where I put them last, so I just used a piece of tape to remind me not to go too deep.

The jig is pretty cool. It's self centering, and you just put the drill bit in the hole that marked for the size bit / dowel you're using.

Attachment 112513Attachment 112514Attachment 112515

In last pic, you can see the marks I made on the piece before I drilled it.

Since the stock already had weight reliefs cut into it, and I was using 1.5" dowels (3/4" per side), I did end up drilling into the channel, but I don't see this as being any issue. Might just be little messy when it comes time for glue.

Once the first pair of dowel holes are drilled (in the stock), I'm going to use a pair of tenon centers to mark the forend piece. You pop these babies into the holes just drilled in the stock, slam the stock and forend together, and that will mark the forend piece so you'll know where you need to drill next.

Attachment 112517Attachment 112518Attachment 112519Attachment 112520

I'm going to use the dowel jig again, for the second set of holes. You can't see it in the photos, but there is a small shim; since the stock and forend have different diameters, they have different centers. This will keep once piece from riding higher than the other.

Attachment 112521Attachment 112522Attachment 112523

So far, so good...

Remember to chamfer each of the dowel holes, so the dowels go in their full depth and don't seize when it comes time to glue. Dowels can be a little loose, and they're pretty forgiving to use, but once glue gets involved, they will swell like crazy and become rock solid.

Attachment 112524Attachment 112525

Getting close.

Here's with dowels installed.

Attachment 112526Attachment 112527

Close...

I'm going to make an assembly jig next. I'm not going to glue anything together tonight, most likely, but this should help keep everything lined up when the time comes.

First, start with a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe.

Attachment 112528

Then...wait...never mind. That's the jig. And a couple of rubber bands.

Attachment 112529

Overall, I think everything turned out pretty good.

I may be back after dinner to finish, or might wait until tomorrow. If I do the glue up tonight however, I can keep going tomorrow. We'll see...

Attachment 112530

K, good enough then. We'll see it when it's solid... Yep, it's looking good.

So, I didn't call it a night after all.

Having made this much progress today, it would be shame not to do the glue up until tomorrow. Once this is done, then it has to set overnight.

For glue, I'm going to go with Titebond II. There's a bunch of different flavors of Titebond, this one is Premium. Not sure what that means, but it works OK.

Attachment 112540

Once the glue gets flowing, I have to work fast. It's hard to take pics, but I was able to get a few.

Rule #1 - there is never too much glue.

Rule #2 - you need more glue.

Rule #3 - if glue is not seeping from the piece, see Rule #2.


Attachment 112541Attachment 112542Attachment 112543Attachment 112544Attachment 112545

As it turns out, I didn't need my jig made of 1/2" PVC pipe after all.

I used a 3/4" pipe with clamps to lock everything down overnight. With the completed stock assembly placed just right, the stock lays on the pipe, which keeps it straight and aligned perfectly. It works like it was made for just this purpose.

The completed stock is nice, it's tight, and it's straight as an arrow. We'll see tomorrow am what this looks like when it's fully baked.

Attachment 112546Attachment 112547Attachment 112548Attachment 112549Attachment 112550

Jig looks just right, the glue is just a carpenter's type so it should work fine. Looks like it's almost ready for assembly. Color looks right too.

Absolutely killed it.

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More to come. This went along so quickly, I hadn't really thought beyond this point.

For sure, the joint needs some clean-up. You can already see some of the marks where I've been at it with a rasp. This is just to smooth out the transition between the old stock and new forend. It may actually not be needed if the lower band sits OK.

Once it passes a full fit-up test, then we'll clean and re-oil the existing pieces, and get some BLO on the new handguard.

looks real good! I may suggest filling the top end of the lightening cut, where your dowels protrude, covering the ends with epoxy to strengthen. That way the entire length of the dowel is locked in with the stock, and may lessen the chance of cracking when you go to test bayonet fighting potential.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssgross

looks real good! I may suggest filling the top end of the lightening cut, where your dowels protrude, covering the ends with epoxy to strengthen. That way the entire length of the dowel is locked in with the stock, and may lessen the chance of cracking when you go to test bayonet fighting potential.

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Haha! I had totally forgot about the using the bayonet. I'm off to ACE for some epoxy and will be back... Thanks SS for that suggestion!

So, just a few "to-do's" for tonight.

First, I'm going to use a rasp to blend in the transition between the old stock and replacement forend. Note that my glasses have their own light source. I'm that many years old.

Attachment 112590

To blend the transition between the old stock and new forend piece, I'm going to grind on the stock side, working parallel to the shoulder. The old, sporterized forend I removed was slightly wider than this new one, and this created a "step" right underneath where the lower band is supposed to sit. Not only would the band sit unevenly, it would also clamp unevenly, so this step needs to go.

I want to avoid any grinding on the new forend, obviously, taking down only about 1/16" of the stock around the forend, creating a new shoulder. I don't think I can avoid a few scratches on the forend however, but these should hide under the lower band.

Attachment 112591Attachment 112592

Yep, that worked just fine.

I'm using the old band to check this, but it's fine just to verify the work. I think that's going to be perfect.

Attachment 112593

For tonight's final act, I'm gong to add some epoxy behind the dowels that hold the splice together, thanks to the sage advice provided by ssgross. I think this is a great idea, and with a bond strength of 3300psi, this should keep everything from coming apart during bayonet practice.

Attachment 112594Attachment 112595

I'm using Gorilla brand epoxy. Wasn't a particular choice on my end, just what they had at the store. Supposed to set in 5 minutes, but I'm leaving overnight.

To keep the epoxy contained and off the stock, I'm going to mask the lightening hole prior to adding any epoxy. I had intended to mask this off nicely and precisely, but it didn't end up that way. The end results was instead ugly and sloppy, but it will still work.

I'm going to yank this tape off as soon as the epoxy is applied, just so I don't have to worry about the tape not coming off later.

Attachment 112596Attachment 112597

I ended up applying the epoxy in three pours, as it's easier to apply more, than it is too remove if I add too much. I didn't see any point in trying to fill the entire channel, only the section with the dowels.

I have the stock sitting at a slight angle, so I'm letting gravity help with the work.

Attachment 112598Attachment 112599Attachment 112600

That should do it for tonight. Looks good.

Yup, looks very hopeful. I had no doubts this would turn out good.

So today is cleaning day. Actually it's cleaning the stock day, and it's putting the first coat of oil on the handguard day.

For this project, I'm not trying to strip, only deep clean. Required supplies are below:

1. Wife's good towels
2. Kitchen counter
3. Water pitcher for measuring (4qts = 1 gallon).
4. Murphy's Oil Soap
5. Mr. Clean Magic Eraser
6. Sponge
7. Measuring cup (1/4 cup size)
8. Toothbrush
9. GSD

The mix here is 1 gallon hot water (2 pitchers) to 1/4 cup Murphy's. Add water to sink, add Murphy's and mix until its a bubbly gun bath.

Attachment 112627Attachment 112628Attachment 112629Attachment 112630

I keep the GSD with me, so nobody tries to sneak up behind me to do dishes while I'm cleaning my guns.

Cleaning is pretty straightforward. You clean - up, down, right, left. No particular technique needed. I use a toothbrush for the nooks and crannies.

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Once done, it almost looks more like a new reproduction than an original 30's rifle. Years of grime, gunk and other stuff has been removed, but it's not cleaned so deep that it's 85 years of history is gone. Completely stripped stocks never look right afterwards, IMHO.

I'm going to put some BLO on this stock later, but I'm going to let it dry for a day or so before then.

It's probably not clear in the photos, but I did hit my first snag during the cleaning process.

Attachment 112635

How and why this was put in so deep is a mystery to me. I didn't want to get so aggressive with it that I damage the buttplate, but this screw is STUCK. I'll have to scratch my head for awhile and figure out how to get this out. All things considered, I don't really have a need to take it out (the cleaning is already done), so I may just leave it.

For the new handguard, I'm going to use Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) to finish.

If you've never bought BLO before, 1 gallon of the stuff lasts about 3 family generations. The amount you need to complete one rifle is pretty small, so just a quart will probably last a few years. This is Klean Strip brand, again just what they had at the store at the time I bought it.

Attachment 112659

Oiling the handguard will take several coats; today will be the first one. I'll probably repeat at least three times, until I'm happy with the way it looks.

Required supplies:

1. Fingers
2. Aluminum foil
3. Tape
4. Plastic cup
5. #0000 Steel Wool
6. New handguard

Attachment 112660

Why did I feel it necessary to point out that I needed fingers? Why not point out also that I need feet to stand on or eyes to see with? The reason being, we will be hand rubbing the oil into the wood from this point.

The aluminum foil is actually so I don't get oil (any more oil) soaked into my workbench.

Attachment 112661

The BLO gets rubbed into the wood by hand, then I'm going to use the #0000 steel wool to get the oil in deep into the grain. Use small circular motions for the best results.

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No, I'm not wearing gloves. Thanks for asking. BLO isn't toxic. I'm not wearing a COVID mask either.

The final pic is the handguard covered with oil. I'll come back in about 30 minutes and wipe off the excess, and we'll see what it looks like then. This first coat goes on pretty heavy and gets rubbed in with steel wool, any coats after this will be light.

A wipe down to remove any excess, and it's done for today. If this coat is left on too heavy, it will become sticky, and instead of drying in 24hrs, it will be more like 24 days.

Looks good. I'll put on a second coat tomorrow. That's about all i can do for the stock and forend right now.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCS

You need the 1903 leaf sight (I have two for sale on another forum)

Stock has a rebuild stamp.

If the bore is nice it is worth restoration with a NS bolt and stock, pre WW2 handguard tooAttachment 112129

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I still need to pick up a rear leaf sight, but I've come across two different options. Here's a quick question for the experts - for a 1933, should the elevation screw be a solid button type or curved?

I guess overnight the handguard decided to shed. Wasn't anything I did, a couple pieces were just laying there when I picked up the handguard this morning to inspect.

I guess problems should be anticipated whenever you buy something that's 80+ years old as "new".

Fortunately this is a minor piece, and doesn't really affect anything (you can barely see it), but I can't let it go. A repair will be in order.

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To fix this, I'm just going to use a dab of industrial-grade cyanoacrylate glue (CA glue). This is what's commonly referred to as "super glue", but it sets up very slowly until the activator is applied. This way, you can get everything into position, clean up any excess, wipe off your fingers, and then lock it down tight.

Did I mention you can avoid accidently sticking your fingers together?

Attachment 112672

I'm going to try to do this like I'm an old pro, with tweezers and a tooth pick, since everything is so tiny. I can be pretty ham-fisted otherwise, and I don't want to get this glue everywhere.

Once all the pieces are lined up properly, a spray of activator will finish the job.

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The instant the CA activator is spayed on, that's it. It's over. Everything locks into place once and for good.

As a finishing touch, I hit everything with 220-gain sandpaper, just to get rid of any excess, and to make sure everything was smooth and level.

Should be good to go now. Time to add another coat of BLO.

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I've decided against putting BLO on the stock for today, but I will put another coat on the "new", recently repaired, handguard. As I mentioned before, I'm applying the BLO to the wood by hand-rubbing.

It doesn't take much. I think two dabs of my finger in oil was enough for the entire handguard section. Once the BLO is applied, I rubbed it in with my fingers, my thumbs, the palm of my hand. I'm using a fair bit of pressure, as I'm trying to get this oil to penetrate as deep as possible into the grains. Once the oil is applied, let sit for 30 minutes and wipe of any excess.

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That took about 5 minutes. Actually, with the 30 minute wait in-between, it was a total of 35 minutes. Next, we wait another 24 hours, then its rinse-and-repeat again.

The final pic shows where we're at as of now. I guess I could have lined it up a little better, but you get the point.

Well, my plans changed.

The forecast shows temperatures will be dropping over the weekend, so that means I need to speed this up and get the oil finish, well, finished. The colder it gets, the slower things dry. If I do a coat today (Weds), Thurs, and Friday, I'm good.

Here's the stock getting its first coat of BLO. The process is the same as the handguard, except I can rub harder with my palm, as I have a lot of flat surfaces to work with. I'm rubbing the BLO in to the point where the surface is almost warm.

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Wipe off any excess after 30 minutes, and repeat tomorrow.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

So more BLO on the handguard (Coat #3), and more BLO on the stock (Coat #2). Not much else is happening today.

What do you guys think about the color match?

Attachment 112718

if the new forend piece looks a little dull in this pic, it's intentional. I didn't really like the way the color was streaked and uneven, so I'm trying a little "mud-rub" on this section with 220 grit sandpaper to see if it helps. More on this topic tomorrow if it works out. If not, we'll just pretend it never happened.

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Originally Posted by mrandig

the color match?

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Looks pretty good at this point.

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Originally Posted by mrandig

but this screw is STUCK

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A little heat applied directly to the screw head should allow you to turn it out. Don't go crazy - a very little is all that is needed. When I completely tear down an old rifle for a deep clean (usually soon after purchase), I always smear a little white NLGI No.2 grease on any wood to metal contact not likely to see the light of day for another 100 years - such as on those screws and under the butt plate. I picked up the trick from the enfield armorers on that side of this forum.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

I picked up the trick from the enfield armorers on that side of this forum.

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Don't get me started on Enfields lol. I've got another thread started on my No.4 Mk.1, which I need to pick back up once I'm done here.

I may hit it very, very briefly with the MAPP gas torch I've got hiding around here somewhere, and see if it budges any. Thanks!

Final BLO on the stock, final BLO on the handguard. I think it's time to call these done for now, as they've getting to the point where they're starting to weep overnight. Couldn't have come out any better.

Back to the Forend piece. I did a mud-rub yesterday (wet sand with oil), buffed this morning with #0000 steel wool, and rubbed in a follow-up coat of BLO, but I'm not getting a good match to the other wood. It looked bearable originally but, ever since being cleaned, it now looks like it's been through a war (it likely has). Pretty gun, but with a rough, streaky, mismatched forend.

Here's where I'm at in terms of the proceeding:
1. Continue with more oil on just the forend, hopefully darkening the forend enough to match, and hide any issues; or
2. Dye the forend to darken the wood, to match better and hide any issues; or
3. "Nuke" the forend section back to bare wood, and start again. Might help get some of the streaking out, and I can also steam out some of the minor dents.

Each of the three options has its pluses and minuses. What does the group think?

My camera / phone is dead at the moment, but I'll add some pics shortly.

Pics as promised. Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mismatch, but it seems very apparent to me. It just doesn't look close to the same wood. Those long streaks in the wood are making me wonder if this forend got a rough sanding job at some point.

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Off topic, but note how awesome the handguard looks.

Any thoughts on the forend?

And we're going nuclear on the forend...

Pic below is the forend soaked in oven cleaner. It's covered in saran wrap so it doesn't dry. In about an hour, there won't be any oil, grease, dirt left on the forend, whatsoever. None. Nada. Nothing.

The stock is covered in aluminium foil and then wrapped in tape. If I'm careful, I can avoid getting any cleaner on the stock section, which would mean refinishing the entire thing. I really hope I'm careful.

After all this is done, I'll rinse with some Dawn dish soap and #00 steel wool in the bathtub and wipe with the wife's good towels. Dawn works for cleaning birds after an oil spill, so it's safe for rifle stocks and forends also.

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Once this has all been cleaned, it needs to dry really, really slow (ask me how I know). Because it's so clean, the wood will also become very dry without any oils, and will crack if it gets too hot. The thin forend tip is a concern. After that, I'll try to use the wife's only clothes iron, to steam out some of the dents where the grain isn't broken. After that, then it's three more coats of BLO.

Overall, this sets me back a couple days for completion, but I still have parts in the mail.

Oh No! From your pre-oven-cleaner pic, getting a closer color match would have been pretty easy. I would have suggested mineral spirits clear the BLO you applied, then dilute some Birchwood Casey walnut stain with water, and rub the forend to even out the color. Let it dry. If too light in color, do it again. If too dark, go over with plain water. When it matches to your liking, use the BLO. I have matched a few handgaurds like this.

I should've done this at the start. Once it's dry, we'll figure out a plan to get everything matched.

Note the dark band right at the splice. I intentionally didn't want to clean too hard at the repair.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Oh No! From your pre-oven-cleaner pic, getting a closer color match would have been pretty easy. I would have suggested mineral spirits clear the BLO you applied, then dilute some Birchwood Casey walnut stain with water, and rub the forend to even out the color. Let it dry. If too light in color, do it again. If too dark, go over with plain water. When it matches to your liking, use the BLO. I have matched a few handgaurds like this.

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That was my option #2! I debated between more BLO, dye (stain), or Easy Off for almost half the day, then finally went with most drastic. Whatever was under the coats of BLO was giving me fits, so I figured time to start from scratch. Wish I had made that decision before the repair.

Good news, I didn't get any oven cleaner on the stock. Good news, the wood has some pretty grain underneath. Bad news, I have to do the handguard rub all over again, and stripped wood tends to look, well... stripped. I have a couple of tricks here, maybe they will work.

I use Watco Danish oil, medium walnut but they have dark or light as your taste is. Oven cleaner can be a death knell for woodwork, I've been out all day so didn't see anything after 0500 this AM. Whichever oil and stain you use should be ok. Don't be surprised if the streaks come back. Hope not though.

Cleaned 3 times with oven cleaner, then steamed with a clothes iron for probably 45 minutes. Crud wouldn't stop seeping out. Should be clean enough now, and most of the little dents are gone. The big dings at the midline will just have to stay; they don't affect the way it shoots.

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I think I caused some concern in the group over stripping the forend completely, so I now I have to try to make some magic happen.

First, since we stripped the forend down to bare wood, this gives me a chance to do a little repair work. Any small dings, I'll hit with 150 grit sandpaper. I'm going to sand any deep gouges with 100 grit sandpaper. Then I'll sand everything lightly with 150 grit one last time. Note that I'm using a pencil eraser as a backer; its flexible enough to shape and keep the paper against the surface of the forend.

Second, I'll clean off the forend with mineral spirits.

Third, after the mineral spirits are dry, I'm going to "whisker" the forend. This is simply knocking down any raised grain with a Scotch-Brite pad. I want a nice smooth surface to work with. I'm not using steel wool here, as I don't want to deal with the metallic pieces that can sometimes get left behind.

With the above done, we should be ready to start putting on a new finish.

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It's a personal thing, but I just can't seem to get on board with water based stains or gets. I just really don't use them.

Unfortunately, oil based stains come in only a few brands, and I don't like most of these either. At least not the ones for sale at the "big box" stores. I've found the best stains need to be special ordered.

Instead, I'm going to use leather dye. Yes, I said that correctly. I love this stuff, and it works great on wood also. This has an alcohol base, which means it dries super-quickly. Make sure to wear gloves, as it stains really bad. I use a cut up old "skivvy" shirt as an applicator (you may have seen other pieces of this T-shirt in previous pics).

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Put on the first coat of leather dye lightly. It will dry very fast. Use additional coats as required.

If the color gets too dark, it can be lighted with #0000 steel wool.

This is where I'm at as of this writing. We'll wait a while, and see what it looks like after sitting. It might already be a bit dark, but its definitely an improvement over what it looked like before.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrandig

I'm going to use leather dye

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Yes, that works well too. You can get dark and even.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrandig

knocking down any raised grain with a Scotch-Brite pad.

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That's how I whisker and stain at the same time too. Been using it for years, it's more forgiving than sanding too.

In the same boat - best of luck!

If you look closely at the last (Refinishing #3) post, the forend looks almost green. There is no adjustment of your screen necessary. It's not caused by weird light effects. This is caused by various pigments in the dye sitting on the surface rather than soaking into it.

I'm sure there's people on here that can explain the chemistry here better than I can, but a thin coat of BLO prior to applying the dye will help. In my "green" case, a little bit of BLO applied after dye worked also. The dye just seems to works better when it has something to bind to, and help it soak into the surface.

Don't be alarmed if some of the dye rubs off; it's not that it didn't dry, it's just some of the dye didn't soak into the wood.

Here's the original "green" pic, and a pic as of tonight. I did a "mud rub" earlier today (BLO and 220 grit sandpaper), so we'll hit the entire thing with #0000 steel wool tomorrow morning, and hopefully we'll be done.

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Originally Posted by vitalitysquared

In the same boat - best of luck!

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Thanks! I'm hoping that by documenting this step-by-step, somebody else won't have to go through the same process of trial and error. That, and maybe picking up a few hints or tricks from the group as I go. I'm not trying to show off my limited skills, just create the reference source I wish I had.

The cold weather is here, so I'm going to have to put an end to any finishing projects. As long as the temperature is near or at freezing, it's just too cold to get anything to dry in my barely-heated garage.

Here's the completed forend, dyed and now with a final coat of BLO. It's darker than before, but a pretty good match. The light grains have been darkened to match the color of the stock, the dark grains are just, well, dark. Not sure if it's because it's walnut sapwood, heartwood, etc., but this forend just naturally has a lot of stripes, so it's never going to be totally uniform in color.

I also lightly feathered in some stain on the few inches of the stock, so the transition of color would be a little more gradual.

it can be kind of hard to tell in this light, so I'm adding two new pics. It's a little shiny at the moment, as I just put on the final coat of BLO.

Reassembly starts tomorrow!

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Let's get this rifle back together.

First, we must disassemble the front sight, so we can get the upper band on. There's a teeny screw that holds the front sight base in place. In my case, I didn't even have to tap it, it just came out with a little pressure.

I should replace the sight blade while I'm at it, but feeling tired today and it seems like a hassle. We'll leave the Marbles gold tip one on for now.

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Everything gets cleaned at this point. For the hardware, I'm just using Mineral Spirits to clean off any dirt, cosmoline, etc. I've made the mistake of using more aggressive chemicals in the past, and I'd rather not take chances with the finish.

The barreled action gets gets Hoppes #9. A toothbrush comes in handy here.

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The barreled action and trigger guard go into the stock next. Big screw goes in the rear, short screw in the front. I keep everything kind of loose for the moment, and will tighten later. This way, if something doesn't fit right, I can adjust.

Looks about right. I'm having to share the kitchen counter with my wife, as the garage is too cold, just in case you're wondering.

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Now for the handguard, followed by the lower and upper bands.

Since the forend was spliced to the stock, the channel for the band spring was a little finnicky. A small screwdriver was used to clean up the groove, and then I used a clamp to keep pressure on the spring while I screwed down the lower band.

Installing the upper band required some cussing. Also, it required a block of wood and a rubber mallet. These are my go-to tools when in crisis. Finally, once the band is in place, be prepared for the screw not to line up. It goes in the right of the band, through the forend, then peaks out on the opposite side. I drifted it with a similar size allen wrench until everything was lined up correctly. Installing the stacking swivel is the easy part.

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