L42A1 1975

Hi all,

First proper post on here, I have recently acquired a lovely '71 converted L42 so new to me I haven't even picked it up from the dealer yet!

My knowledge on all of the little variations on the L42s is somewhat limited and I came across this rifle earlier apparently a 1975 conversion. The L42 engraving is quite large similar to what I have seen on 1980s conversion rifle (definitely much bigger than on my '71 conversion) but to me the engraving looked a little shallow but for all I know this may be common on this era of conversion. Most other bits on the rifle look ok to me, just the engraving stood out.

Anybody able to advise on the engravings?

Attachment 120334

Link to the rifle in question:
https://www.enfieldguns.com/l42a1-1975

Also the price seemed a bit steep at £7900 as it has no CES items or transit chest.
The L42 I bought recently had full CES with an all matching rifle in lovely condition for only £1600 more.

Hmmmmmm, what is the serial number of the rifle?

A sure way to check provenance.

Engraving looks a bit amateurish.

Thats what I was thinking, just looked a bit off to me.

Serial number isn't visible on the rifle but the serial number on the scope mount is: H38307 by the looks of it.

Ad says the scope mount matches the rifle. Would be interested to see if the number comes back to anything.

I did a quick view through the archives and found 3 1975 conversions, all have the standard 1970's size markings. I would be wary of this one.

The good news is that H38307 is on the original list

The bad news is, it was converted in October 1971 - So unless they had a time machine........................

I would be asking the seller for some detailed photographs of the wrist socket, serial number, markings either side of the cocking piece, barrel markings and anything else they could send.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jacob

Hi all,

First proper post on here, I have recently acquired a lovely '71 converted L42 so new to me I haven't even picked it up from the dealer yet!

My knowledge on all of the little variations on the L42s is somewhat limited and I came across this rifle earlier apparently a 1975 conversion. The L42 engraving is quite large similar to what I have seen on 1980s conversion rifle (definitely much bigger than on my '71 conversion) but to me the engraving looked a little shallow but for all I know this may be common on this era of conversion. Most other bits on the rifle look ok to me, just the engraving stood out.

Anybody able to advise on the engravings?

Attachment 120334

Link to the rifle in question:
https://www.enfieldguns.com/l42a1-1975

Also the price seemed a bit steep at £7900 as it has no CES items or transit chest.
The L42 I bought recently had full CES with an all matching rifle in lovely condition for only £1600 more.

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On the "1975":

I think that the front pad is a repro (can't see the rear pad).

I think that the rings are repro - the matching markings look like RP's to me.

The thumb knobs definitely are repro (but not RP pattern).

Definitely something off with this one then going by the information provided by Roy and Lance. Hopefully nobody gets caught out, especially at that price!

My 1971 :

Attachment 120343Attachment 120344

Wow thats a lovely rifle! Can’t wait to pick mine up soon. Great CES too!
Thats a photo or two of my ‘71. Has a lovely ces with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jacob

Attachment 120343Attachment 120344

Wow thats a lovely rifle! Can’t wait to pick mine up soon. Great CES too!
Thats a photo or two of my ‘71. Has a lovely ces with it.

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You did very well at £9500. I'm told that recently one was advertised at £19,000 and sold at £17,000

You appear to have all the main bits and can acquire the 'extras' over time. Is it to be a safe-queen or a shooter ?

I was certainly happy with the price. Oh wow thats crazy money! There was one with very similar ces to mine at devizes gunsmith that went for 9k in the last month. Mine came through Devizes gunsmith via Fultons on consignment as well.

Will definitely be a shooter like my 4t!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jacob

I was certainly happy with the price. Oh wow thats crazy money! There was one with very similar ces to mine at devizes gunsmith that went for 9k in the last month. Mine came through Devizes gunsmith via Fultons on consignment as well.

Will definitely be a shooter like my 4t!

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I got my 4T (complete CES etc) from Richard at Devizes, some 5 years ago now.

I wasn't really looking for one with CES though, as I was trying to avoid collecting stuff, having just beforehand selling all my large militaria collection to a dealer.......but was seduced by the fact that it was such a nice rifle.....!
Shoots lovely as well.

Shame about that L42 linked above being now a bit suspect, as I would consider trading my 4T for a nice L42 rifle only without CES etc.

Interesting they seem to have an 1980 L42A1 too!
Issued to BAOR in 1980’s

L42A1 1980 | lee-enfield

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Originally Posted by Roy W

The good news is that H38307 is on the original list

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What original list?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanL96a1

Interesting they seem to have an 1980 L42A1 too!
Issued to BAOR in 1980’s

L42A1 1980 | lee-enfield

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I would be interested to see if the serial number comes back as anything for that rifle too, again the engravings on the side look a little off to my eye in terms of depth and style even for a 1980 conversion.

SN is listed as: 37638

---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melanie_Daniels

What original list?

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The Enfield ledger I believe, it lists most L42 conversions by serial number and conversion batch/date.

Jacob, the rifle you show in your original posting is not a genuine conversion. As Lee Enfield says the front pad is a reproduction (although admittedly it could have been fitted as a replacement to an original rifle that had been 'got at'), & the scope bracket is definitely one of my last batch, so it was manufactured & sold relatively recently, which in turn means that someone put the rifle together relatively recently, too! The bracket thumb screws are mine, but only of the type I sold with the last batch of brackets - the edges are a little thicker than the previous types as they were made by a different manufacturing technique. I would have preferred them as before, as they were exactly as per the originals, but there wasn't an option at an acceptable price.

The '1980 late conversion L42' in the link is another 'interesting' one.........but I'll keep my countenance. Does anyone know who is the seller? (Just curious - feel free to pm me). ADDENDUM - forgive my ignorance - just noticed it's the same seller for both mentioned rifles & I now know who it is.

I hope we haven't disappointed you Jacob.

By chance, I bought a nice honest L42A1 last week, & thought I had paid a little over the odds for it once I realised what of the CES was & was not included.........but in view of the content of this thread I'm feeling somewhat happier already! I should be able to make a margin without nailing anyone's appendage to the floorboards!

Addendum: Melanie, there is a list of all (although some contest that there are a few original rifles missing from it) L42A1's converted by Enfield. It has never been generally available, but a few people are fortunate enough to have a copy. Simon started a sticky on this forum where he undertook to validate individual rifles by their serial number, & this sticky still exists at the top of this page, although Gil is currently providing the service. Thus people can access the list.

Incidentally, I took receipt of that last batch of one hundred No32 brackets in April 2018, & sold the last couple about three or four months ago.

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Jacob, the rifle you show in your original posting is not a genuine conversion. As Lee Enfield says the front pad is a reproduction (although admittedly it could have been fitted as a replacement to an original rifle that had been 'got at'), & the scope bracket is definitely one of my last batch, so it was manufactured & sold relatively recently, which in turn means that someone put the rifle together relatively recently, too! The bracket thumb screws are mine, but only of the type I sold with the last batch of brackets - the edges are a little thicker than the previous types as they were made by a different manufacturing technique. I would have preferred them as before, as they were exactly as per the originals, but there wasn't an option at an acceptable price.

The '1980 late conversion L42' in the link is another 'interesting' one.........but perhaps keep my countenance.

I hope we haven't disappointed you Jacob.

I bought a nice honest L42A1 last week, & thought I had paid a little over the odds for it once I realised what of the CES was & was not included.........but in view of the content of this thread I'm feeling somewhat happier already!

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Not disappointed at all Roger! Pleased with myself if anything for spotting it, I only raised the rifle in the first place as it looked a little suspicious whilst I was browsing some rifle ads on that site so it's nice my suspicions are confirmed.

Thankfully I have a legit '71 conversion with a nice CES so I'm not too worried.

Hopefully nobody gets caught out by the fake '75 conversion!

It would be interesting to see what people have to say on the '80 conversion which also looks a little off to me.

I'll hang fire for a bit........but I made up my mind about it within five seconds! Look at the stated manufacturer & look at the receiver side wall ledge.....

Incidentally, I'm not accusing the seller of anything - he may have bought it in good faith.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

I'll hang fire for a bit........but I made up my mind about it within five seconds! Look at the manufacturer & look at the receiver side wall ledge.....

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Upon closer viewing of the photos it's really quite a poor effort, my previous statement of calling it a 'little of' is a rather significant understatement.

Does anybody know if this dealer is known for this e.g. has a poor existing reputation?

As Roger said, he may have bought both in good faith and been none the wiser.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jacob

I would be interested to see if the serial number comes back as anything for that rifle too, again the engravings on the side look a little off to my eye in terms of depth and style even for a 1980 conversion.

SN is listed as: 37638

---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 AM ----------




The Enfield ledger I believe, it lists most L42 conversions by serial number and conversion batch/date.

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Neither 37638 nor N37638 are listed in the L42 Ledgers

That engraving is worse than the 1975 one

As a caveat, the ledger does not contain any 1980 dated conversions that I can find. The latest being 1979.

I think you are absolutely right Roger.
Both these rifles have been "manufactured" by an individual.
One has to hope the seller knows very little about L42's and has himself fallen into the trap. All the stencils are incorrect on the metalwork, and other than the Scope being authentic not much else to say!
In good parachuting verbage..........."Steer Clear" is my advice;)

These posts are excellent info for those of us who are still learning. Thank you gentlemen!

I have just trawled the ledgers I hold on the legitimate L42's produced and the closest to either rifle is K37636.
So these L42's are pure myth IMHO.;)

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

I have just trawled the ledgers I hold on the legitimate L42's produced and the closest to either rifle is K37636.
So these L42's are pure myth IMHO.;)

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The serial number of the 1975 one shown in post 1 does exist on the Ledger, but it is for a 1971 dated rifle
H38307 Batch no.34 - Converted 16th Oct 1971.

So, either the number on the scope bracket doesn't match the rifle, or they have even fabricated the rifle serial number.

All very odd.

Roy,
Didn't have time to waste to trawl both numbers on the images shown, but certainly the one I was concentrating on 37638 is not there.;)

Got my back up when he just mentioned the SAS and the ROYAL MARINES....................no mention of THE PARACHUTE REGIMENT lol

The 1980 rifle isn't a BSA Shirley produced type - if it is a Mk1 body it is probably a Faz., yet the serial number (haven't looked to see if it is on the list - it's academic anyway) is for a BSA Shirley rifle of 1944 mfr.

Now I realise who the seller is I must say I find it hard to accept that he is knowingly behind this. I don't know him well, but I do know him, & I think it is far more likely that he has been sold a pup. He has shown me several unsolicited kindnesses when we have had dealings over the past few years.....

Roger,
The term "Bag of Nails" comes to mind :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

I'll hang fire for a bit........but I made up my mind about it within five seconds! Look at the stated manufacturer & look at the receiver side wall ledge.....

Incidentally, I'm not accusing the seller of anything - he may have bought it in good faith.

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Wow,
I looked at the pics last night with my phone and noted that the M47 ect butt socket markings looked wonky - but that kind of takes the cake - fake manufacturer's markings and codes...serial number too!

With prices going the way they are, it was only a matter of time before L42's etc started to appear in the "faked to be sold as real" category just like all those K98k sniper's have been for the past 30 odd years.

They both appear to be Blued / Blacked. I would of thought they would have been finished with Suncorite

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Originally Posted by GeeRam

With prices going the way they are, it was only a matter of time before L42's etc started to appear in the "faked to be sold as real" category just like all those K98k sniper's have been for the past 30 odd years.

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It's not just firearms. One of my other interests is military issued watches and prices of those have also rocketed over the past few years. This has now seen the emergence of fakes of not only the rarer expensive types but even the humble CWC Quartz G10 is not immune to attempts to pass off copies or made up "bitsas" as originals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Now I realise who the seller is I must say I find it hard to accept that he is knowingly behind this. I don't know him well, but I do know him, & I think it is far more likely that he has been sold a pup. He has shown me several unsolicited kindnesses when we have had dealings over the past few years.....

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These things can happen of course. Only last week I saw a well known specialist auctioneer sell what they had described as a "scarce MkI late model Fairburn (sic) Sykes dagger" for £2500 (£3300 inc fees). The trouble was it wasn't a "late" First pattern FS but was an early nickel plated Second pattern model worth perhaps half that figure at best. No doubt the misdescription wasn't intentional on their part but I feel sorry for the purchaser. It just shows that you should do your own research when you can and not to rely on descriptions even from the highly reputable houses.

.. so did anyone also tell the seller on his phony L42A1 rifles, or do we only discuss it and later tell people coming up with them to forums they should had known better?

PS: someone should also save pictures of those and post them in here, in case the listing gets deleted, so that for future reference they are recorded.

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Originally Posted by Promo

.. so did anyone also tell the seller on his phony L42A1 rifles, or do we only discuss it and later tell people coming up with them to forums they should had known better?

PS: someone should also save pictures of those and post them in here, in case the listing gets deleted, so that for future reference they are recorded.

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Totally agree Georg, problem with Knock ups in the UK, they gain providence on the circuit, Even a very reputable and famous gunshop on a famous range, have been known to knock up something and punt it on, a member here who has turned his hand to writing was on the receiving end of such a rife.

Other knock ups are passed through the auction etc, Desperate Dan mentions K98s, I,m sure you cringe when you see the crap some have knocked up and tried to punt it on through Scotarms.

As for the dealer regarding the L42,s I have to grit my teeth and avoid any mud slinging but his knowledge on firearms is about as good as mine on wild flowers.

He contacted me many years ago when he was with Jeff Organ regarding a knock up by The Late Chris Barber, a pile of crap I bought but was sale or return, asked on this forum about it and recieved the truth behind it, totally made up but the workmanship was abysmal to say the LEAST, was returned for a full refund, as that dealer was a true gentleman.

I told him all the info I had, but fell on deaf ears, they still went ahead and sold it, it had gained an extra 0 on the original price since I had it.

So if anyone here has a so called, yeomanry Light horse SMLE then you have in fact a item of someone's imiganination and the whole story behind it is pure fairy dust.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Totally agree Georg, problem with Knock ups in the UK, they gain providence on the circuit, Even a very reputable and famous gunshop on a famous range, have been known to knock up something and punt it on, a member here who has turned his hand to writing was on the receiving end of such a rife.

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I have seen them sell 'totally original' Enforcers that were never assembled and were originally sold off as barreled actions at the end of the contract.

I did contact them about one, and was told 'its a mistake, its been removed from sale' the next day it was back with the same details so I called again, I was told they had no idea why it had appeared again, and anyway it had sold that morning.


They had a Mk1*** which was clearly marked DP but they were selling as a 'live rifle', and no mention of drill-purpose in the description. Similar story to above when I called them. It was removed, came back onto their website and was sold a couple of days later.


Sharp practices abound in the secondhand gun market.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Promo

.. so did anyone also tell the seller on his phony L42A1 rifles, or do we only discuss it and later tell people coming up with them to forums they should had known better?

PS: someone should also save pictures of those and post them in here, in case the listing gets deleted, so that for future reference they are recorded.

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Someone being someone else, presumably?

Here they are then

There is, which I thought an original 4T out there which was made up took like a L42, it was sold at Scotarms same time as the rifle I mention in my previous post, it did have the correct scope etc (not matching) but had a hole drilled in the butt socket ( I suspect for a sight etc) but no engraving etc. I tried to tell Mike at the time its not a L42 but fell on deaf ears, I need to try and find the auction catalogue see if I can find the serial number.

I have mentioned this rifle before so its not new to the forum, I do recall these things now and again as its how these knock ups are circulated (in my eyes) its basically crap some one has bought, sit on it then punt it on later etc when the heat dies down.

Chris Barber had a big collection of crap so there must be a lot of his stuff out there popping up now and again.


If only a lot more folk come forward with information on the melons they have bought in the past etc, it would make the hobby a lot easier, we have all done it at some point regardless of what it is.

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Originally Posted by Jacob

The Enfield ledger I believe, it lists most L42 conversions by serial number and conversion batch/date.

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And where is it possible to find it?

Melanie,
If you put up the S/N of an alledged L42, I along with two others on this site hold that information. We will in return, IF, it is on the original conversion lists, provide you with the date and batch, and its final MOD destination for storage forthwith with the full amount sent on that day...........or at least after breakfast :lol:

Sharp practices is perhaps a bit of an understatement.

These retailers trade on their expertise and reputation, so they are either exposing their lack of knowledge and professionalism or their outright fraud and dishonesty, either way purchase with extreme caution.

I have looked at the comments about this Brit L42A1 7.62 Sniper rifle and to me it looks a very genuine L42A1 and I have visit this Brits webpage on the L42A1 and it looks great. Maybe Jacob paid too much money for his L42A1 and this is a case of sour grapes

Doug: If this is out place just zap it
If anyone has any suspect L42 or No.4(T) thumb screws and needs original ones drop me a PM.
I have a small supply of original British WW 2, NOS thumb screws that I am willing to part with, and just trying to help out.
I can move this to the classified if you want.
Warren

Mark Thorp: Nice to see you here!!!
It has been many years since I've heard of you.

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Originally Posted by Mark Thorp

I have looked at the comments about this Brit L42A1 7.62 Sniper rifle and to me it looks a very genuine L42A1 and I have visit this Brits webpage on the L42A1 and it looks great. Maybe Jacob paid too much money for his L42A1 and this is a case of sour grapes

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Interesting first post............................

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Originally Posted by Roy W

Interesting first post............................

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Indeed...... :runaway:

I've got a legit 1975 conversion sn. AM8298. There's no way on this earth that the OP's rifle is a legitimate 1975 conversion. I've had one 1980 conversion that had the later poor markings similar to the bogus markings on this rifle but they aren't that bad.

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Originally Posted by Mark Thorp

I have looked at the comments about this Brit L42A1 7.62 Sniper rifle and to me it looks a very genuine L42A1 and I have visit this Brits webpage on the L42A1 and it looks great. Maybe Jacob paid too much money for his L42A1 and this is a case of sour grapes

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Great to have you register here and to tell us all local experts are wrong and you finally tell us it is good to go with with your first post on this board ever.

Promo looking at the website now.... the rifle action picture has been changed from the original one, shown in previous posts. It now looks closer to an original 75 L42A1.

https://www.enfieldguns.com/l42a1-1975

Attachment 121042Attachment 121043

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Originally Posted by DanL96a1

Promo looking at the website now.... the rifle action picture has been changed from the original one, shown in previous posts. It now looks closer to an original 75 L42A1.

https://www.enfieldguns.com/l42a1-1975

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Looks like it has been skimmed, re-engraved and re-painted to me. Appears to be the same receiver, but clearly different engraving.

Even more fakery then

You can see the remains of the No.4 MK1 engraving that they didn't quite erase when skimming the old engraving off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanL96a1

Promo looking at the website now.... the rifle action picture has been changed from the original one, shown in previous posts.

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See, that was why I said we should save the pictures in here!

To continue: seems this person followed/read this particular thread, why else would he want to modify the rifle. This makes the post of user "Mark Thorp" even more suspicious (Doug, are you able to check where the IP address this user used is from? I wonder if really from CA as it wants to suggest, or from the UK, as I imagine it could be).

And finally, the simple fact that the seller of this rifle is this ruthless to have the rifle re-engraved, re-finished and re-listed on his website clearly shows he very well knows what he is selling and he does not admit that this is fraud what he is doing. A fully documented scam of a shameless seller. I'm speechless of how unscrupulous someone can be.

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Originally Posted by Promo

See, that was why I said we should save the pictures in here!

To continue: seems this person followed/read this particular thread, why else would he want to modify the rifle. This makes the post of user "Mark Thorp" even more suspicious (Doug, are you able to check where the IP address this user used is from? I wonder if really from CA as it wants to suggest, or from the UK, as I imagine it could be).

And finally, the simple fact that the seller of this rifle is this ruthless to have the rifle re-engraved, re-finished and re-listed on his website clearly shows he very well knows what he is selling and he does not admit that this is fraud what he is doing. A fully documented scam of a shameless seller. I'm speechless of how unscrupulous someone can be.

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It's also interesting he made that post (and only that post) and hasn't been online since...

Turd alert! it still looks bogus and not even close to original. Other than that, words fail me.

I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but we seem to have made a bad situation rather worse........

If the dealer has indeed done what appears to have been done then they are just compounding an outright criminal fraud.

If you want a chuckle read some of the descriptions of some of the goods offered for sale.

What an embarrassment.

I'll just leave this here:-


Attachment 121050


http://www.efdrifles.com/contact.php

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Originally Posted by Roy W

I'll just leave this here:-


Attachment 121050


http://www.efdrifles.com/contact.php

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Aah............that kind of explains a lot :runaway:

Attachment 121066Attachment 121067Attachment 121068Attachment 121069Attachment 121070Attachment 121071Attachment 121072Attachment 121073Attachment 121074Attachment 121075Attachment 121076


Screenshots of the descriptions for the record:

Having quietly watched this thread and hoping the dealer in question would
A: 'adjust' his description and price accordingly.
B: remove it from sale.

I am sitting here with my mouth literally hanging open at the outright barefaced fraud, all done in front of a watching and knowledgeable crowd...

Quite incredible and a dealer to absolutely avoid!!!

If you click on the little blue icon next to the "Thanks" button below Mark Thorps profile it is pinging from Panama. Hmmm!!

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Originally Posted by Roy W

I'll just leave this here:-


Attachment 121050


http://www.efdrifles.com/contact.php

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Geoffrey Organ died some 4 years ago, and as an ex Enfield employee, & knowing what the correct markings should be I doubt he would have got up to such shenanigans, and, certainly is not in a position to have 'remade them' this last week or so.

Just for clarity, "EFD" is not the same company as "Enfield Rifles"

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

Geoffrey Organ died some 4 years ago, and as an ex Enfield employee, & knowing what the correct markings should be I doubt he would have got up to such shenanigans, and, certainly is not in a position to have 'remade them' this last week or so.

Just for clarity, "EFD" is not the same company as "Enfield Rifles"

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Well said Alan and helpful clarification.
There is a historical link though as I'm led to believe that the individual behind "Enfield Guns" was a former business partner of the late GO.

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Originally Posted by desperatedan

Well said Alan and helpful clarification.
There is a historical link though as I'm led to believe that the individual behind "Enfield Guns" was a former business partner of the late GO.

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Exactly this. No inference was made that Geoffrey Organ was involved, however the lineage of the company selling this rifle is well known and the connection of Mr Thorp, is relevant given his comments on here.

Bottom line is this is fraud and anyone supporting it is verging on conspiracy to defraud.

Sorry Mark but I don't see any personal attacks here other than the one you just lodged on our British brothers. It says a lot. Do you have a financial interest in the sale? Some of us don't want to see another enthusiastic buyer get burnt by this questionable seller and overpriced rifle which would probably make someone a great shooter if described honestly and priced accordingly. The real truth is that it was bound to happen that unscrupulous folks would start cobbling up fakes as original rifle prices skyrocket. Having had 60+ original L42A1 rifles through my hands in the past 25 years, (one importation of 30 at one time), I actually do know a little bit about them and can comfortably say that you are simply wrong in your opinion of this rifle. Brian

For those of you who read Brian's post & feel a little confused, that is because Mr Thorp posted a few words intimating that he is entitled to free speech (which he is), & that forum members located in the UK ('Limeys') just don't like that. He reiterated that in his & others' views the rifle is genuine.

However, this post did not stay up for long & would seem to have been deleted, though by whom I do not know.

I only mention this to put Brian's message into context.

The truth hurts Rog!

---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 PM ----------

Didn't he use the word "cowards"?

I'm afraid he did......:rolleyes:

I mentioned the deleted post simply because Brian's response was still there & would not have made sense to people otherwise. My apologies if I've upset anyone.

While cursing should not be left in public, I do feel it is important that such messages are left because they allow classifying the first post of this user even better. Wow. This developed beyond what I had considered in my worst expectations.

Would BTW anyone unveil the name of the dealer? I could not find it on the website.

Mr Thorp gives his age as 89, and assuming this is correct, I propose we all should consider whether to allow the gentleman a modicum of dignity and leeway in the way he chooses to express himself. For I'm happy with strong views - and wrong views - just as long as nobody gets hurt!

If the rifle in question is a fake, and I accept it is, then let's see the proof spelled out, point by point. We'll all learn something.

The old caveat "I don't want to give the fakers the benefit of my knowledge" can also be a consideration, naturally.

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Originally Posted by RobD

Mr Thorp gives his age as 89, and assuming this is correct, I propose we all should consider whether to allow the gentleman a modicum of dignity and leeway in the way he chooses to express himself. For I'm happy with strong views - and wrong views - just as long as nobody gets hurt!

If the rifle in question is a fake, and I accept it is, then let's see the proof spelled out, point by point. We'll all learn something.

The old caveat "I don't want to give the fakers the benefit of my knowledge" can also be a consideration, naturally.

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The reasons for it being fake have been spelt out in this thread already, including the attempt to re-engrave it. Mr Thorp is entitled to his opinion, of course, but it is also acceptable that people know he was an associate of the seller when the seller was a business partner of EFD Rifles, as shown by the internet EFD Rifles screenshot. When EFD rifles closed, because the owner died, his business partner started Enfield Guns - so I believe and stand to be corrected. Hence Mr Thorps assertions, supported as they were, by no evidence whatsoever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

For those of you who read Brian's post & feel a little confused, that is because Mr Thorp posted a few words intimating that he is entitled to free speech (which he is), & that forum members located in the UK ('Limeys') just don't like that. He reiterated that in his & others' views the rifle is genuine.

However, this post did not stay up for long & would seem to have been deleted, though by whom I do not know.

I only mention this to put Brian's message into context.

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Wow.
Thorp sounds like a lovely person on so many levels....not.
But he clearly still has some connection to this dealer then.....or knows a lot less than his ego thinks it does......otherwise he wouldn't have stuck his oar in.....other than to be nasty of course.

Hey ho.

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Originally Posted by Roy W

Attachment 121042Attachment 121043

Looks like it has been skimmed, re-engraved and re-painted to me. Appears to be the same receiver, but clearly different engraving.

Even more fakery then

You can see the remains of the No.4 MK1 engraving that they didn't quite erase when skimming the old engraving off.

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With thanks to Roy, I blew these pics up etc and it has been bead blasted ( the reason the No4 etc is a bit harder to see as this is only etched and after a few sessions in the blast cabinet they become faint)
probably done to give it a more realistic finish, the engraving although looks re done, its the original which has been over engraved to make it deeper and wider.

Fraud, forgery and deception is all I can say, I doubt the seller has the skill set for this so the person who did the work is an accessory to the crimes...... Like Brian says would probably make a good shooter if described correct and the price was in line with a converted No4 to a target rifle.

Lets hope someone does there ground work and sees this thread.

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

For those of you who read Brian's post & feel a little confused, that is because Mr Thorp posted a few words intimating that he is entitled to free speech (which he is), & that forum members located in the UK ('Limeys') just don't like that. He reiterated that in his & others' views the rifle is genuine.

However, this post did not stay up for long & would seem to have been deleted, though by whom I do not know.

I only mention this to put Brian's message into context.

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Blimey, Limeys and Cowards! It's a shame it came and went so quickly, sounds hilarious!

The post in question violated our user's rules and was deleted accordingly. Let's move on,

Bob

It appears that this rifle is now no longer listed on the dealers website and the previously linked pages have been deleted.

The cowboys and con-artists have nowhere to hide.

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Originally Posted by Mark Thorp

The condition is this L42a1 and marking obviously make this one of the very few genuine L42a1 that have ever come onto Milsurp. I have been amassed by sheep mentally of members that appeared to have risen the tile line on social bullying to a new height.
I have also notices a member call Gil Boyd who obviously has very inflated view of himself but lacks any substance, like an over inflated balloon.
Bullying like this to an company who probably has no idea that this social media site even exist !

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So, so, sad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Thorp

The condition is this L42a1 and marking obviously make this one of the very few genuine L42a1 that have ever come onto Milsurp. I have been amassed by sheep mentally of members that appeared to have risen the tile line on social bullying to a new height.
I have also notices a member call Gil Boyd who obviously has very inflated view of himself but lacks any substance, like an over inflated balloon.
Bullying like this to an company who probably has no idea that this social media site even exist !

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Methinks he doth protest too much!

I've given up on this thread & would humbly & respectfully suggest the rest of us do, too. Mr Thorp has aired his views & so have we, so let's just leave it there......