Pre-WWII web slings, common, uncommon, rare or unobtainium?

Looking for a late WWI or early 1920's web sling for a SMLE at the moment.

Not really looking to pay $250 for the one WWI dated sling I can locate presently.

Were all web slings marked with the manufacturer mark and date on the metal end fittings up to a point or were some stamped on the webbing circa WWI?

I see a lot of unmarked "WWII" Enfield slings that appear to be very much like the marked WWI slings I can find pics of, other than the absence of markings.

I'd think that with the millions of Enfields that were made for the first world war, WWI vintage slings would be more available. Or, they are and are hiding in plain sight.

Were tubular rivets used to attach the sling fittings in WWI, or only the rivet and washer arrangement?

I've done some searching on Enfield sling ID, and found surprisingly less than I expected.

In my collection of webbing Enfield slings I only have one which is WW1 dated and this is marked on the brass end I believe. This sling was given to me by a UK dealer 25 or so years ago when buying something else off him.

Garandy, have you had a look at this?
Weapons: Slings

Think I paid $130/Aud for this Wrights 1916 black (Not blanco'ed) web sling 15 years ago put it on my 5MD 1916 Lithgow No.1 MKIII.

Flea-bay has lots of replica ones but if you do buy an original one make sure its not for the bren gun as they are considerably longer than the standard length ones that fir the rifle.

They are out there, but most have been worn out by two wars and National Service afterwards. Unless they are marked on the metal, Blanco and boot polish make it hard to tell.

I know a fat lot about slings, but look out for WW1 examples from time to time for my own rifles. Does anyone know what the situation was for the location of maker & date marking? All WW1 examples that I can recall seeing to date were stamped into the brass fittings at each end, but later examples seem to be undated or dated simply by an ink stamp directly on to the webbing. Was there a system of rules for this, &/or were manufacturers simply allowed more latitude as time went on?

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Originally Posted by Garandy

Looking for a late WWI or early 1920's web sling for a SMLE at the moment.

Not really looking to pay $250 for the one WWI dated sling I can locate presently.

Were all web slings marked with the manufacturer mark and date on the metal end fittings up to a point or were some stamped on the webbing circa WWI?

I see a lot of unmarked "WWII" Enfield slings that appear to be very much like the marked WWI slings I can find pics of, other than the absence of markings.

I'd think that with the millions of Enfields that were made for the first world war, WWI vintage slings would be more available. Or, they are and are hiding in plain sight.

Were tubular rivets used to attach the sling fittings in WWI, or only the rivet and washer arrangement?

I've done some searching on Enfield sling ID, and found surprisingly less than I expected.

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I have a MECo 1914 webb and a wrights 1916 dated & N^Z marked webb sling spare, if ya can help me out with a mk1 smle nosecap, or waisted front sight protector / hinged front band for early no4, let's talk!

The latest dated sling I own is 1949; the few Great War examples I have encountered have all been in dire condition as MkVII mentions above.

Mick, out of curiosity, is your 1949 dated example ink stamped onto the webbing or stamped into the brass ends?

Roger, stamped on the brass ends: W.H. over 1949.

I suspect any ink markings on the webbing that might have been there have long since rubbed off.

This was recently discussed on the Great War Forum and the consensus was that nobody had ever seen a definitely authentic WWI LE sling that was ink marked on the webbing - they were only stamped on the brass ends. I too wonder why WWI LE slings are so scarce other than perhaps almost all of them were used to destruction.

The cheaper display option is to find a sling with some natural age to it that has no legible post-WWI markings.

A LE sling has little or no provenance. Possibly the name or serial number of one of the previous owners. Used over and over until disposed of as US. Possibly WWI slings were still issued in WWII and after as they were still in stock, serviceable, and hadn't changed since WWI.

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Originally Posted by RobD

Garandy, have you had a look at this?
Weapons: Slings

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I have indeed and found it interesting. That was one of the few bits of info I found before I started this thread.

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Originally Posted by peregrinvs

This was recently discussed on the Great War Forum and the consensus was that nobody had ever seen a definitely authentic WWI LE sling that was ink marked on the webbing - they were only stamped on the brass ends. I too wonder why WWI LE slings are so scarce other than perhaps almost all of them were used to destruction.

The cheaper display option is to find a sling with some natural age to it that has no legible post-WWI markings.

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That begs the question, when did marking the metal cease and marking the webbing instead start getting phased in?

Extremely WW1 British 1913 Dated Canvas Sling - MJL Militaria

I'll just leave this 1913 (cough, cough) made example here, I'm going to go ahead and assume it was made at 13 minutes past 7 yesterday evening!

Could it be very, late Indian?

I found a leather Lee Enfield sling dated 1919 on a early rifle. Do not here much about the leather ? Awhlie
back I sold a 1941 almost new leather sling for $55.00 call it the "Home Guard" sling. Some state there were
some Lend lease M1 rifles w ith these 1941 dated slings.

Will take a photo of the dated 1919 leather sling

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

Could it be very, late Indian?

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I think so F10, as in made a few weeks ago!

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I have a Cole Brothers 1916 dated leather sling on my 1917 Enfield SMLE

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I have a Cole Brothers 1916 dated leather sling on my 1917 Enfield SMLE

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Mick, out of curiosity, is your 1949 dated example ink stamped onto the webbing or stamped into the brass ends?

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I've attached a couple of pictures of one of my slings - '37 dated on both brass ends, and ink dated on the webbing - interestingly 3 years later at 1940
Not a great picture of the ink marking, I'm afraid - its a lot clearer in the flesh!

I have a spare M.E.Co 1936 sling (Mills Equipment Company) in usable condition.

Finally tracked down a WWI dated sling for my 1913 Enfield SMLE that didn’t cost the earth. It had been dyed black (possibly indicating post-WWI Irish use) but I was able to remove it with Rit Color Remover. Note the maker name and date stamped on the brass ends and a government property / inspection mark inked on the webbing.
Attachment 131347Attachment 131348Attachment 131349

Nice catch, wish it could tell us where it's been. Well used but nice.

Wow you did a great job if that used to be black!

Must agree with Jon, heck of a save to get all that dye out, and get that result.

Thanks. This is how it started and I think that helped bring the price down.Attachment 131350
I’ve done the same thing in the past with other dyed black British webbing such as a 1908 Pattern haversack, a 1908 Pattern bayonet frog and a 1919 Pattern cutlass frog.

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Originally Posted by peregrinvs

Finally tracked down a WWI dated sling for my 1913 Enfield SMLE that didn’t cost the earth. It had been dyed black (possibly indicating post-WWI Irish use) but I was able to remove it with Rit Color Remover. Note the maker name and date stamped on the brass ends and a government property / inspection mark inked on the webbing.
Attachment 131347Attachment 131348Attachment 131349

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Wow, that came out well.

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Anyone try doing anything with one of the painted rather than dyed slings?

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Originally Posted by Nigel

I have a spare M.E.Co 1936 sling (Mills Equipment Company) in usable condition.

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I must have missed this when you first posted it. Thanks for thinking of me.

Send me a PM or email if you still care to discuss.

I have successfully removed paint from webbing in the past by blasting it at point blank range with a pressure washer.

BUT it’s not a cost free exercise. It also strips out the khaki dye on the surface leaving it very pale necessitating a recolour with khaki blanco. I did this on two 1937 Pattern ammunition pouches and the end result was a great improvement, but it didn’t return them to their exact original unpainted appearance.

The webbing also needs to be strong and undamaged to cope with the pressure. I also attempted to take some white paint off a 1908 Pattern frog and it basically blasted apart when the water jet hit a patch of rotted webbing under the paint… :crying:

Just finished working on 15 slings I bought as a bit of a pig in a poke. About half were dyed or painted and about a third are longer, presumably Bren slings. All unmarked on the brass.

I tried a bath of Rit Color Remover and it took some of the color out, but not nearly enough. My blue/black slings are mainly still blue/black though one looks like it has a disease of some kind as it's a bit blotchier now.

Working on the rust stains next........

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Originally Posted by Garandy

I tried a bath of Rit Color Remover and it took some of the color out, but not nearly enough. My blue/black slings are mainly still blue/black though one looks like it has a disease of some kind as it's a bit blotchier now.

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On entering boys service in 1966 we were all issued with new 37 Pattern webbing (except rifle slings which were kept in the armoury) the next step was to dye them black with a commercial dye; the smell has stayed with me to this day!
Once dyed black we then used Kiwi boot polish to give the webbing a deeper shiny black, those of us lucky enough to find we had been issued with webbing that contained black metal buckles were then told to exchange them for brass buckled webbing and repeat the dye and boot polish regime.

Garandy, is it any wonder the black is difficult to remove!

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Originally Posted by Garandy

I tried a bath of Rit Color Remover and it took some of the color out, but not nearly enough. My blue/black slings are mainly still blue/black though one looks like it has a disease of some kind as it's a bit blotchier now.

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It all depends on what was applied to the webbing in the first place as to what can be removed now. Sometimes all that is required is water and a nailbrush.

I do have several tins of what I believe was marketed as an alternative to blanco and which I believe had the consistency similar to boot polish. I've not opened the tins but I think once it was applied to webbing it was on there for good.

37 Webbing continued to be issued to the Royal Armoured Corps into the 1970s, the tankies not having much use for webbing anyway - it usually stayed in the bins on the tank. Other people have reported having to bootpolish it black.

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Originally Posted by Mk VII

Other people have reported having to bootpolish it black.

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Our own guys of The Queen's Own Rifles had to webbo and boot polish their '51 pattern webbing until they were issued the "New" '64 pattern stuff. Then we were still issued the '37 pattern rifle slings through the '70s also until the C7 rifle issue mid '80s. The slings were black or tan or even blue toned...but we didn't care. I don't recall any special markings regarding this threads direction.

I can remember us having to boot polish the slings for a formal parade (something we didn't do much of) and I bought in a buttonstick and did the brasswork on mine as well.

Ravens oil was used to blacken the slings, then boot polish to give a shine, later on a laquer was used on both webbing and boots.