3 Sequentially Numbered No 4 Mk 2 in Mummy Wrap

Greetings all- Quick question. I recently purchased 3 sequentially numbered LE still in the wax paper wrap and cosmoline. I am not sure if 3 "Irish Contract" rifles wrapped up still are significant or not. I collect and shoot primarily long range to ultra long range precision rifles and transferables. These are my first surplus rifles. I do not note anything interesting about their serial numbers. Nothing suggests they were anything other than part of the normal production of these beautiful rifles.

I do not have safe queens in my gun room and I'd like to keep 1 stock, create a military level precision scoped rifle and give the 3rd to my best friend. I have no interest in them as an investment. I love the idea of reloading for the .303 and it is my understanding that done right these can be exceptionally accurate for an issued rifle.

That said, I got to thinking is this a bad idea? I have no real idea of the status of these. In other words are they important in this condition? Or are they just 3 nice rifles?

I understand they are mine and I can do what I'd like but as a fan of history it occurred to me that I may be ill advised to treat them like typical purchase. If they are important I will donate to some museum. Anyhow, I thought I'd ask before I get stuck in so to speak.

Oh one more question: Would it be interesting to anyone or for the forum to create a thread w/pics showing the process or has that been done enough with Youtube videos?

Hi and welcome to our great forum.

Concerning your questions, I don't know if the value of these rifles would be very high, but having three in sequence would make me happy. That's for sure.
Modifying one to create a precision scoped rifle is for sure an interesting task, but much depends on what milsurp rifles are to you.
I would never tinker or alter such a rifle, but that's just me. I would rather take a sporterized one (already messed with) and work on that one, and leave the ones in original condition as they are.
Call me romantic, but those old rifles are history, in a way or the other.

In any case, it would be interesting to see what you can get done with a rifle in good conditions, skill and knowledge about shooting and reloading.

Again, welcome!

They are indeed lovely.

Honestly, I think they're worth more in the wrap or even cleaned than changed to something they never were. But they're yours so what you wish... Turning a standard #4 into a "T" that never was will be a handful.

I have just sold a not in the wrap No4 Mk2 that had been cleaned but not used to a service rifle shooter.
You can buy no drill and tap mounts for these rifles. The steel one is the best only down side it may only be 1" tube diameter.
They are not made anymore, they are already old, they are still new so the value will only go up.
Clean and shoot one, keep the other two as an investment. The shooter will still increase in value as long as it is left unmodified. You will have the best of both worlds.
I had two Mk2s with the idea of shooting one and keeping the other as new but a mate offered me enough to prize the one i was going to shoot away from me at a weak moment.

Unless you get one that is a rail not all in one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ovidio

Hi and welcome to our great forum.

Concerning your questions, I don't know if the value of these rifles would be very high, but having three in sequence would make me happy. That's for sure.
Modifying one to create a precision scoped rifle is for sure an interesting task, but much depends on what milsurp rifles are to you.
I would never tinker or alter such a rifle, but that's just me. I would rather take a sporterized one (already messed with) and work on that one, and leave the ones in original condition as they are.
Call me romantic, but those old rifles are history, in a way or the other.

In any case, it would be interesting to see what you can get done with a rifle in good conditions, skill and knowledge about shooting and reloading.

Again, welcome!

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Thanks for the welcome and the great response. Totally get what you are saying about the precision rifle. And the term is often a bit subjective. It'll never been at the same level as my custom built guns or even my MRAD Mk22 kit. I am undecided. I am leaning towards your idea of not doing it and getting a 4th LE. TBH the research and thinking it through is the best part for me and I can do that with another LE.

The other part is I have read that with the right work the No 4 Mk2 can be very accurate out to 800 meters. It is supposedly a favorite of many who shoot those military type comps.

My gal is a British lawyer and is moving here to Miami soon. Right now, I have the 3 rifles in boxes on my dining room table. She will stab then sue me, if I don't come up with a better plan :) She loves to shoot maybe I'll give her one I think she'd enjoy the process and history. She already thinks she is the owner of my full auto HK MP5SD.

And I 100% agree on the history part. They are just incredible.

The problem you will run into with a used rifle is the Cordite issue and BT projectiles. With a new barrel like in the Mk2 this a non issue.
you are correct about the accuracy but not the distance 1000yds thankyou.

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Originally Posted by JustAMarine

Totally get what you are saying about the precision rifle.

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Before supply every rifle (even those 'in the wrap') were test fired and had to meet the standards.
The accuracy specification for the No4 rifle was :

SMLE TESTING
For the SMLE All rifles were tested for accuracy by the Small Arms Inspection Department at 100ft, and 10% were also tested at 600 yds. All rifles were fired from a special mechanical rest, known as an Enfield Rest, and a special Telescope layer was used for laying an aim. The Enfield Rest was designed to simulate the conditions under which a rifle would be held when fired from the shoulder, and was provided with hand wheel adjustments for laying an aim. Trial shots were first fired and, if necessary the foresight was adjusted laterally, or replaced by one of a different height, until the shots on the target were within the required limits. Five rounds were then fired, and four of the five shots had to be contained in a rectangle 1 inch broad by 1½ in high. Rifle which failed this test were rejected. At 600 yds 10 shots were fired, nine of which had to fall within a 2 foot circle.

No 4 RIFLE TESTING
For the No 4 Rifle, the accuracy test was the same at 100ft ten per cent of all rifles were then fired at 200 yds when six of seven shots had to fall in a rectangle 6in x 6in , the point of mean impact having to be within 3 inches of the point of aim in any direction. Ten per cent of rifles fired at 200 yds were again fired at 600 yds when 6 out of seven shots had to be in a rectangle 18 inches x 18 inches the permissible deviation of point of mean impact being 9 inches up or down, or left or right. Two per cent of rifles were fired from the shoulder, ten rounds being fed into the magazine by charger and fired rapid to test “feeding up” and ejection. After these tests the barrel was inspected to ensure that there was no expansion in the bore or chamber and that it shaded correctly from end to end. (Was not bent)

No 5 TESTING
The firing test to which the No 5 rifle was subjected was the same as that for the No 4 at 100ft. It was not tested at 200 yds but 10 per cent were tested at 600 yards when the acceptance was ten out of ten shots contained in a rectangle 36 inches x 36 inches. Two per cent of the No 5 rifles were also submitted to the same functioning test as the No4 rifle.
Throughout World War 2 much of the accuracy testing was done by women shooters who quickly became proficient at the job. To speed up the procedure, the telescope layer was dispensed with, and aim was taken in the normal way through the back sight. The .1 inch aperture in the back sight was too large for easily laying a correct aim at 100ft, and a small spring steel adaptor was used.



Despite being manufactured to be 'minute of man' I have a Savage produced Mk1* that holds just under 1 MoA when I play my part.

I have always wondered about that and I actually had someone call and ask me reference wrapped vs unwrapped the other night. I have seen varying reports that cosmoline will eventually break down and create its own negative issues with a rifle but cannot verify if they are correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

Before supply every rifle (even those 'in the wrap') were test fired and had to meet the standards.
The accuracy specification for the No4 rifle was :

SMLE TESTING
For the SMLE All rifles were tested for accuracy by the Small Arms Inspection Department at 100ft, and 10% were also tested at 600 yds. All rifles were fired from a special mechanical rest, known as an Enfield Rest, and a special Telescope layer was used for laying an aim. The Enfield Rest was designed to simulate the conditions under which a rifle would be held when fired from the shoulder, and was provided with hand wheel adjustments for laying an aim. Trial shots were first fired and, if necessary the foresight was adjusted laterally, or replaced by one of a different height, until the shots on the target were within the required limits. Five rounds were then fired, and four of the five shots had to be contained in a rectangle 1 inch broad by 1½ in high. Rifle which failed this test were rejected. At 600 yds 10 shots were fired, nine of which had to fall within a 2 foot circle.

No 4 RIFLE TESTING
For the No 4 Rifle, the accuracy test was the same at 100ft ten per cent of all rifles were then fired at 200 yds when six of seven shots had to fall in a rectangle 6in x 6in , the point of mean impact having to be within 3 inches of the point of aim in any direction. Ten per cent of rifles fired at 200 yds were again fired at 600 yds when 6 out of seven shots had to be in a rectangle 18 inches x 18 inches the permissible deviation of point of mean impact being 9 inches up or down, or left or right. Two per cent of rifles were fired from the shoulder, ten rounds being fed into the magazine by charger and fired rapid to test “feeding up” and ejection. After these tests the barrel was inspected to ensure that there was no expansion in the bore or chamber and that it shaded correctly from end to end. (Was not bent)

No 5 TESTING
The firing test to which the No 5 rifle was subjected was the same as that for the No 4 at 100ft. It was not tested at 200 yds but 10 per cent were tested at 600 yards when the acceptance was ten out of ten shots contained in a rectangle 36 inches x 36 inches. Two per cent of the No 5 rifles were also submitted to the same functioning test as the No4 rifle.
Throughout World War 2 much of the accuracy testing was done by women shooters who quickly became proficient at the job. To speed up the procedure, the telescope layer was dispensed with, and aim was taken in the normal way through the back sight. The .1 inch aperture in the back sight was too large for easily laying a correct aim at 100ft, and a small spring steel adaptor was used.

Despite being manufactured to be 'minute of man' I have a Savage produced Mk1* that holds just under 1 MoA when I play my part.

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As the Telescopic Layer actually sat on the foresight blade and the backsight (or was that the case with the No.4 as opposed to the No.1 Rifle?) and reflected the point of aim of the sights, did this process as the text implies, involve zeroing of the sights to the point of impact or just a grouping test?