reloading 303.

I have just started the process of going through all my old cases (several thousand of them) and removing the old primers. I have the horandy reloading turret stuff and all the kit I need. couple of questions.
1. Over the last couple of thousand rounds I kept the cases and marked which rifles they came from. Generally shoudl I only refire these cases in teh same rifles to prolong case life?
2. When I have primers removed. Is there a recommended cleaning method? My inclination is to use a fine mesh bag in the dishwasher (when the wife is out). Would that be good enough?
3. Finally regarding the cases that are not marked. Do I resize the whole thing or just accept that not every cartridge will fit into every rifle I have, or is this asking for case separation and trouble down the line?

If you are going to neck-size only, generally recommended for .303, keep your brass segregated by rifle.
I have never cleaned my .303 cases, bit I will sometimes clean the primer pockets if they are especially dirty.
You can full-length resize the orphan cases or just neck-size and be prepared for a hard feed or two. They will then form to that rifle.
The .303 round is pretty easy to reload, and you'll like the results.

Excellent advise there, jonnyc, and thank you for piling in.

I am reloading for a small army's worth of .303s and find that it is darned near impossible to keep them sorted out sometimes. Generally, I segregate brass by the rifle it was fired from and neck-size only; this is your quickest route to turning out some very accurate ammo.

You should segregate brass by MAKER, also, there being fairly great variance in some of those. The single most consistent brass for the .303 which I have ever encountered is the Canadian-made WW2 stuff made by Defence Industries. Every rim I have measured (a lot) is either right AT the .063" MAX or so close to it that my Moore & Wright micrometer actually has trouble measuring it.

For actual loads, I find that a very good test load for any .303 is a Sierra 180 flatbase Pro-Hunter with 37 to 38 grains of 4895. You SEAT to the overall length of a Mark VII Ball round; this crowds the rifling just a bit but the rifles like it. Velocity on this is 2250 with a Lee-Enfield, 2335 with a Mark III Ross. It s extremely accurate and just a bit on the mild side, so no pressure problems at all.

For a load with a 150, I use the HORNADY flatbase Spire Point with 40 grains of 4064, bullet seated so that the ENTIRE cannelure shows. This also is an extremely accurate load..... and just a little bit mild.

For Cast Bullet mild load, there is no substitute for the C.E. Harris UNIVERSAL load for midsize military rifles: 13 grains of Red Dot shotgun powder with a CAST bullet of about 180 grains weight. This will give you close to 1800 feet per second. This load works well with most midsize military rifles and cartridges, so you can use it with the 8x57, .30-06 and others. Bullets may well be more accurate if you use gas-checks, so that is something to know. This load usually gives about 2 MOA or a little under. Cheap, too: 537 rounds out of a tin of powder!

Hope this helps.
.

By rifle only,neck size until mild full size is required usually the shoulders to be moved back a little. Full length sizing reduces case life if you have a large chamber. Clean when the cases feel sticky or have been on the ground. A wipe with a rag poke a inside neck brush in spray lube or wipe neck with rag dampened with lube reload. I use a Lee neck sizing die.

Yes, something I should have mentioned.

My bad!

You can at least DOUBLE the life of your .303 brass by lubing the INSIDE of the case neck. I have brass here that has gone 15 times and still does not even need to be trimmed.

Serious.

Good luck!

I know everyone has their way of doing it, but presently I figure stuff case life if you have heaps of brass and full length size. You'll still get 5+ reloads and will never have any chambering issues, in any rifle you feed it to. I used to neck size only and, yes case life is prolongued and mabe there is an accuracy advantage, but I can't pick it.
The convenience of being able to use my reloads in any rifle is very significant to me, and it's why I now choose to do it this way.
That's just my 2 cents.

A case separation in the middle of a comp could spoil your day, so careful case inspection is well worthwhile. Check before you clean the brass - you are looking for any sign of a bright line around the case just above the web. If you can see any bright line, even if it doesn't go all of the way around, dump that case.

You might take a look at the shoulder of a number of your fired cases and compare them with a new cartridge. You will find the LE chambers vary a lot in shape from each other. They also vary a LOT from the shape of a new unfired cartridge. This presents a challenge since reloading dies normally produce a sized case that more closely resembles the unfired rounds instead of the various chambers. The best compromise might be to find the smallest chamber you have and resize to fit it knowing that the loads will fit anything with a larger chamber.
A learning exercise you might try is take a box of 20 and reload and shoot then until a few fail. Depending on the circumstances of your brass, chamber, loads and loading techniques you will probably get a few failures before you have reloaded the box 5 times. Wear glasses. To prepare for the inevitable you might take a rough fired case or two and trim most or all the neck off and keep them with you when you go to the range. When you have a case head separation you can run the neckless case into the shell that is left in the chamber and bump the bolt into it. Then retract the bolt and it will pull out the headless case. Once you have seen the way fired brass behaves you can try fine tuning your technique to extend the life of your brass. I am am sure you will get plenty of help here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by newcastle

I have just started the process of going through all my old cases (several thousand of them) and removing the old primers. I have the horandy reloading turret stuff and all the kit I need. couple of questions.
1. Over the last couple of thousand rounds I kept the cases and marked which rifles they came from. Generally shoudl I only refire these cases in teh same rifles to prolong case life?
2. When I have primers removed. Is there a recommended cleaning method? My inclination is to use a fine mesh bag in the dishwasher (when the wife is out). Would that be good enough?
3. Finally regarding the cases that are not marked. Do I resize the whole thing or just accept that not every cartridge will fit into every rifle I have, or is this asking for case separation and trouble down the line?

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If you just start doing it, in a safe manner as prescribed in any good handloading manual, you'll sort out how you want to deal with all the details in the medium term. Try it all, neck size and record the rifle it came out of, see if those rounds will fit other rifles(of the same caliber), see how many reloads you get doing it both ways, and decide for yourself, because either or both work well and it's just about what suits you.
If you're reloading on a regular basis, and using case lube you will probably want a case tumbler pretty early on rather than using the dish washer, because you may want to clean the brass before sizing, then after as well to remove the lube, I only clean them after sizing to remove the lube, but it would be a bit of a hassle to do them in the dishwasher then have to wait for them to dry and get growled at by the wife etc.
Also if it's just the primer pockets you want to clean, after removing the primer, you can buy a little primer pocket cleaner, which is a small wire brush made just for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by newcastle

I have just started the process of going through all my old cases (several thousand of them) and removing the old primers. I have the horandy reloading turret stuff and all the kit I need. couple of questions.
1. Over the last couple of thousand rounds I kept the cases and marked which rifles they came from. Generally shoudl I only refire these cases in teh same rifles to prolong case life?
2. When I have primers removed. Is there a recommended cleaning method? My inclination is to use a fine mesh bag in the dishwasher (when the wife is out). Would that be good enough?
3. Finally regarding the cases that are not marked. Do I resize the whole thing or just accept that not every cartridge will fit into every rifle I have, or is this asking for case separation and trouble down the line?

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newcastle

Take your marked cases before any resizing is done and see if they will fit any of your other Enfield chambers and take note of how the bolt closes. I have three Enfields that are so close that neck sized cases will fit all three rifles.

Below is a Wilson Case Gauge, it is nothing more than an American SAAMI "civilian" .303 chamber, the surplus South African amunition in the top photo is setting .002 below the lip of the gauge as any "normal" unfired case should fit. Please note the case is headspacing or resting on the shoulder of the case and not the rim, this gauge is normally used to adjust your full length resizing dies for minimum shoulder bump.

In the bottom photo is a new American Remington case and it is setting over a 1/4 inch below the lip of the gauge. This means the shoulder of the case is a 1/4 of an inch shorter than standard British military ammunition.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...twocases-1.jpg

Now below is a fired case in the Wilson gauge and the case is sticking up over the top of the gauge and it should be level with the top of the gauge "IF" you had a civilian non-military .303 chamber. The amount of the case protruding from the top of the gauge is the distance the "military" chamber was lengthened to keep the mud of Flanders from jamming the military .303 Enfield.

"NOTE" The standard military .303 Enfield chamber is longer than a civilian .303 chamber "AND" our full length resizing dies.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/under2-1.jpg

Now remember if a full length resizing die is used the shoulder of the case will always be pushed back too far unless you use non-standard die adjustments.

You can try and go to the hardware store and find washers that are the correct thickness or you can order headspace control shims for your reloading dies to give you the minimum amount of shoulder bump to chamber a cartridge.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP4385-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...054719PM-1.jpg

If you do not adjust your "CIVILIAN" full length reloading dies for the "LONGER" British military chamber your full length resized cases will die an early death.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...houldera-1.jpg

The above message was brought to you by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to .303 Brass Cartridge Cases.

looking at the picture above - the two cartridges on teh right have a shiny area above the head, more noticeable on teh right hand case. Is this where the case has stretched and is this super bad? I've noticed this on alot of my cases.

newcastle

Below are .308 cases, and I'm showing them as a general example because the location of the case head separation is dependent on case construction and thickness. This normally involves base diameter and case wall thickness "BUT" the quality of the brass also plays a big part.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../308fail-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...308fail2-1.jpg

Just as an example a new hunting rifle might have from .003 to .005 head gap clearance or "air space" between the rear of the case and the bolt face. The .003 to .005 is also the amount the case can stretch and thin in the web area when first fired.

Below is a once fired factory loaded Winchester case, it stretched and thinned .009 in the web area and the headspace on this Enfield is set at .067 and the head gap clearance is also .009.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP4523-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP4521-1.jpg

With my RCBS Case Mastering Gauge I do not have to use the bent paper clip trick checking for case head separations, this gauge tells me exactly how much the case has thinned.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP4513-1.jpg

I agree you should segregate cases for each rifle and neck size. I have had no more case separations since I adopted this method; when I was full length resizing I had plenty of separations, even on 1st reload. Sellier and Bellot cases are awful for separations - Prvi Partisan are good cases.
If you have orphan cases, neck size them and then try them in your rifles to see which they will fit.
I use 174 grain FMJ boat tails (the cheapest supplier is the Flying Dutchman, he visits Bisley fairs a couple of times a year, see his website http://www.bold-action.com ) and 40 grains of Vihtavuori N140

Quote:

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Originally Posted by newcastle

looking at the picture above - the two cartridges on teh right have a shiny area above the head, more noticeable on teh right hand case. Is this where the case has stretched and is this super bad? I've noticed this on alot of my cases.

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If they're only once fired that isn't going to be a problem.Often they look a bit like that, the shiny ring that occurs before separation is not the same as the shiny band just in front of the rim, where the case begins to taper often looks a little suspect, but usually it's fine. Just do some and you'll pick up the little details as you go.
I've had 2 case separations ever in .303 reloads, and they were almost consecutive in a batch that had been reloaded about 20 times, it's not a big deal, and you'll learn how to spot it most of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by newcastle

looking at the picture above - the two cartridges on teh right have a shiny area above the head, more noticeable on teh right hand case. Is this where the case has stretched and is this super bad? I've noticed this on alot of my cases.

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newcastle

Below is another example of once fired brass, the Prvi Partizan case on the left has a larger base diameter and the case walls are .010 thicker than ANY presently made .303 case. The case on the right is a military Greek HXP case it has a smaller base diameter and the case wall thickness is .010 less than the Greek HXP.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...privihxp-1.jpg

Please note that neither of these two cases stretched or thinned in the base web area when fired. The Prvi case did not stretch due to its larger base diameter and case wall thickness, and the Greek HXP case did not stretch due to higher quality brass.

The Winchester case below failed after three neck sizings, it is a shame but company profits are the bottom line in todays world and neither Winchester or Remington are producing ammunition at any of our American munitions depots.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP5191-1.jpg

ATK now produces small arms ammunition at our American Lake City Depot, if I remember correctly Remington is now owned by a French company and Winchester belongs to General Dynamics weapons division. Money talks and quality walks..............

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...KAlliant-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/RL15-1.jpg

The bottom line here is you can not always judge your cases by outward appearance.

Thanks for all your advice. Now all I have to do is find time to deprime 4000+ cases, get the wife out of the house to use the dishwasher, have time to dry them all outside in the sun and get reloading.

>>>In the bottom photo is a new American Remington case and it is setting over a 1/4 inch below the lip of the gauge. This means the shoulder of the case is a 1/4 of an inch shorter than standard British military ammunition.<<<
From the photo 1/4" is a bit of exaggeration. In any case (to make a terrible pun) I don't an O ring the size of a B-36 tire will correct it.

Ireload,
The point about stretching and subsequent separation is that it always takes place about 8 mm in from the case head. That shoulder is not weher teh case splits, strangely, and this is why: As the case expands during firing, it adheres to the chamber where it is thin (at the neck, then shoulder) and the thick part is pushed back. This thins out the case. The little O ring serves to press the case head snug against the bolt face before firing, so that it is already as far back as it can be when the expansion-adherence-stretching takes place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobD

The little O ring serves to press the case head snug against the bolt face before firing, so that it is already as far back as it can be when the expansion-adherence-stretching takes place.

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I tried the O ring method a few weeks ago for the first time. Five shots, 5 O rings split in two down the middle leaving me with 10 thinner O rings. The brass looked only slightly better than without the O ring.

RobD,
So tell that to the guy claiming the location of the shoulder is the problem. You have missed several thousand posts about the same subject.

I guess so - and pleased to have missed them, actually - the thousands I have read constitute a veritable ouroboros. I wish I hadn't entered this fray.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baal

I tried the O ring method a few weeks ago for the first time. Five shots, 5 O rings split in two down the middle leaving me with 10 thinner O rings. The brass looked only slightly better than without the O ring.

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Baal

The last 100 cases I fire formed were with the same o-ring without any damage to the o-ring, your o-ring size will depend on your headspace setting, rim thickness and the diameter of your cases. I also remove the extractor when fire forming, the problem with American made cases is they tend to run to the smallish side on base diameter. When the o-ring is compressed and squeezed by the bolt it centers the cartridge in the chamber, and helps promote equal case expansion.

You can also try and use Sierra 180 grain bullets and see if when seated long the bullets touch the rifling and push the cartridge case against the bolt face for fire forming.

The idea of using the rubber o-ring is not mine, I first read about the o-ring method in the old Jouster forum, and I believe it was posted by "Terry in Victoria". I thought the idea was a little too Bubba for me, then one day while fixing the kitchen sink I held an o-ring in my hand and decided to give it a try.

The main problem you will run into if your use American made cases is the fact that you have a large British military chamber and smaller American made cases not designed for the rated pressure of the military Mk.7 round.

The bottom line is if your cases are not fire formed correctly they will become warped or banana shaped and your reloaded bullets will be out of alignment with the bore and accuracy will suffer.

Baal, the o-ring below fire formed over 100 cases and is still in good shape.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP5096-1.jpg

For fire forming my cases I use 100 grain .312 pistol bullets and a reduced load of SR 4759, it saves $$$MONEY$$$ and your shoulder when firing 100 to 200 rounds at the range.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MGP2717a-1.jpg

For those of you that missed my other 17,286 postings on this subject, the photo below shows that American manufactures can't even make a .303 British case to American SAAMI standards. The shoulder of the American made case should be in the same location as the shoulder on the "foreign" made military surplus case.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...twocases-1.jpg

If you actually measured the difference in shoulder location you would "SEE" that it is over a 1/4 of an inch short of the correct position.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...houldera-1.jpg

Our American made .303 cases have thinner rims than "foreign" made military cases.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...thicker3-1.jpg

Our American made .303 cases have smaller base diameters than "foreign" made .303 cases.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...thicker2-1.jpg

Our American made .303 cases are thinner than "foreign" made military cases.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...thicker1-1.jpg

Being one of the shooters who only uses what the Queen supplies school of shooting and never reloaded anything, I have heard other shooters talking about annealing their cases every so often, especially around the necks. Is this an answer to any of the split case problems, even if it's not directly related to this thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Being one of the shooters who only uses what the Queen supplies school of shooting and never reloaded anything, I have heard other shooters talking about annealing their cases every so often, especially around the necks. Is this an answer to any of the split case problems, even if it's not directly related to this thread

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Mr. Laidler

The answer to your question is yes Mr. Laidler, and it is very related to this thread.

Thanks for that Ed. I'm not the brightest light in the box when it comes to reloading. I've got the metallurgy but maybe you could explain the theory. But maybe I ought to learn fast, looking at the price for .303" factory stuff............. Phew!

First reloading lesson Mr. Laidler

"Borrow" as much of the Queens brass that's reloadable as you can get.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP6208-1.jpg


And then make them stand in formation

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP6205-1.jpg

Impressive, Ed; although if there is ever an International Brass Shortage, I now know that it won't be centralized in Harrisonburg, PA. If you ever want to be a part of a brass for good intentions telethon, a few of us will happily pledge.

Once again, I have to chuckle at Ed's comments. When I was involved in the minigun trials I remembered seeing 7.62mm brass just pouring down the tube and into these whacking great 44 gallon plastic oil drums. We filled up drum after drum with the stuff, firing most of the day during the series of timed and technical trials. There's no doubt that we were firing it faster than they were loading it, that's for sure as when it overflowed the drums, we were shovelling it up. Happy days........... I took my son to one afternoon of the trial and let him have a go with a tethered gun with a burst of 2,000 rounds or so........

We all used to sit around with a cup of tea at the end of the day to unwind and get the cordite smell out of our system and discuss bits of the trial. Son Robert, who had been helping to sweep up and shovel the brass into the huge boxes, quite innocently asked if someone had to take it home to reload it and if they DID, could he come and help for some pocket money!

The trial Officer said that it was a kind thought, but we could UNload it faster than he or even Radway Green could load it!

Hey Ed, those buckets full of .303 brass look strangely familiar although obviously allot cleaner. Thank God for the Lewis, Vickers and Bren, eh??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Hey Ed, those buckets full of .303 brass look strangely familiar although obviously allot cleaner. Thank God for the Lewis, Vickers and Bren, eh??

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I'm sorry Brian the 500 Greek HXP cases I bought from you have already been cleaned, tumbled, weighed, bagged and boxed by case weight and year of manufacture.

The five gallon buckets of brass are "strangly familiar" because they are 5.56x45 mm NATO cases (.223 Remington) donated by our local Swat Teams who were too lazy to police up their brass at the range. The swat teams would line up abreast at the 50 yard line and walk aligned and in-mass to the target boards firing and reloading.

The Swat Teams ruined most of my shooting day as I "sadly" walked back and forth from the benches and the targets over and over again "policing up the littered shooting range. This happened so many times my gas mileage dropped off that month as I drove my truck home from the range with the rear end of my truck sagging and almost dragging the ground.

Sadly the last rifle I bought was a Stevens 200 in .223 and not an Enfield, my heart is broken at the sacrifices I must make for my shooting hobby. :crying:

Did I tell you that you can adjust the headspace on the Stevens 200 by just loosening the barrel nut below. :lol:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP6475-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edward Horton

The last 100 cases I fire formed were with the same o-ring without any damage to the o-ring, your o-ring size will depend on your headspace setting, rim thickness and the diameter of your cases. I also remove the extractor when fire forming, the problem with American made cases is they tend to run to the smallish side on base diameter. When the o-ring is compressed and squeezed by the bolt it centers the cartridge in the chamber, and helps promote equal case expansion.

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While this is getting well beyond the original question, there are different routes to the same destination.

I've never heard of "the o-ring method" before.

On the other hand, what I have always done with new .303 brass is use M-dies to set up a false shoulder on the brass before loading that results in just being able to get a crush fit when closing the bolt. With this method, there is not much question that the brass is firmly supported between the shoulder of the chamber and the face of the bolt, and any movement of brass is going to be outward only.

I am also anal enough that I wrap thin strips of masking tape around the base of the brass (having determined how many wraps are required) which allow it to just be chambered before first firing. This generally takes place during commercials while watching the military channel or whatever on TV. The idea of this is to ensure that if the false shoulder doesn't center the case within the chamber, the tape certainly makes sure it does.

I keep a good thing going by using Lee's collet dies for resizing so the brass gets worked no more than necessary.

I don't know about others, but this certainly works for me.

For better or for worse, using this to set up brass for all future loading, results in brass that has long life and accuracy out of my two LE's that I certainly can't snivel about. I buy all my brass in lots of 500, so it is a relatively infrequent chore which I consider to be acceptable in exchange for what I think it delivers in ease of reloading and case life.

With all of that in mind, the o-ring idea is now busily racing around in my mind. It seems to me that this would replace the irritant of wrapping tape ahead of the rim quite nicely while ensuring the base of the case was centered in the chamber at the back.

This bears investigation. What size o-rings do I head out and search for?

Rick

I waited over five years after reading about the o-ring method of fire forming the .303 British and I wish I had started as soon as I had read about it. I have been reloading for over 40 years and the o-ring method just seemed a little too far out in left field until I tried it.

Optimist over at Gunboards did a destruction test with new Remington cases after I posted the o-ring method of fire forming there. Optimist reached 32 case reloading number before the first case failure and had NO case head separations.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/oring1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/oring2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/oring3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/oring4-1.jpg


Your o-ring size for fire forming will depend on the case base diameter and your headspace setting, I use three different sizes depending on the Enfield used.

I even lapped a zero bolt head to give me a headspace setting of over .084 and used the o-ring method with no ill affects. I like having tight headspace but the o-ring method makes the word "headspace" meaningless (within reason) on the Enfield rifle.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP6471-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP6472-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edward Horton

Optimist over at Gunboards did a destruction test with new Remington cases after I posted the o-ring method of fire forming there. Optimist reached 32 case reloading number before the first case failure and had NO case head separations.

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Well, it sounds like we're taking somewhat similar paths to the same results. O-rings, obviously, are a lot faster way of centering the brass up in the chamber than wraps of masking tape. However, I'll continue putting a false shoulder on each new piece of brass prior to first firing, even though I see no mention of him doing that. The false shoulder ensures there is hard contact at both the shell base and shell shoulder - something the o-ring won't do. Whether hard contact versus o-ring will make any difference, I don't know and am too lazy to investigate. But putting the false shoulder there takes no time at all, so I'll continue with that. I do like the idea of no more tape wrapping, however, for centering the brass.

Quote:

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Your o-ring size for fire forming will depend on the case base diameter and your headspace setting, I use three different sizes depending on the Enfield used.

I even lapped a zero bolt head to give me a headspace setting of over .084 and used the o-ring method with no ill affects. I like having tight headspace but the o-ring method makes the word "headspace" meaningless (within reason) on the Enfield rifle.

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Hmmmm... well, there's no "headspace slop" (for lack of a better term) once you put a false shoulder on the case that just barely allows the bolt to close. I suppose when I try it I might want to start on the smaller sizes, because with a false shoulder the o-ring is more about centering the case than keeping the base back against the bolt head. And my LE's are nicely minty with "0" bolt heads, so there isn't a lot of extra room in there to begin with.

damn, this thread was fun. can someone point me where to go to learn about the pupose and use of this o-ring procedure? please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by no4mk1shooter

damn, this thread was fun. can someone point me where to go to learn about the pupose and use of this o-ring procedure? please

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no4mk1shooter

On a non-rimmed cartridge case like the .308 being fire formed for the longer chamber of the 7.62 NATO you had two choices.

1. When reloading you would seat your bullet "long" so it would touch the rifling and hold the case against the bolt face.
2. Make a false shoulder on the case neck or enlarging the neck of the case so it held the case against the bolt face.

Both of these methods help prevent the case from stretching and thinning in the web are of the case when fired.

Below is a animated .gif image example of the .303 British cartridge being fired and stretching and thinning in the base web area.

NOTE: The animated .gif image below is from Parashooters "Headspace 101" sticky.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stretch1-1.gif

Now here are some problems with the two methods of fire forming I listed above.

1. On the majority of used Enfield rifles, the throat is too long and you can not seat bullets out long enough to touch the rifling.
2. Creating a false shoulder can lead to and cause cracked necks due to the amount the necks are enlarged. (over working the brass)

Now comes the "simple" method of fire forming your .303 British cartridge cases. You use a rubber o-ring to push the case against the bolt face to prevent the cases from thinning and stretching in the web area as shown in the animated image.

Below the rubber o-ring is holding the case against the bolt face with the added benefit of the compressed o-ring "centering" the case in the rear of the chamber which promotes accuracy.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ame_0001-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP6290-1.jpg

After the case is fire formed, your cases will "headspace on the shoulder of the case and this will hold the case against the bolt face and prevent stretching.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...eadspace-1.jpg

If fire formed this way you will get much longer case life when reloading your Enfield rifle AND looking for longer bolt heads will be unnecessary.

NOTE: On an Enfield that passes head spacing with the .074 gauge and a American made case at minimum rim thickness you can have as much as .020 head gap clearance or "air space" behind the case for it to stretch and thin in the web area of the case.

Below is a example of excess head gap clearance or too much headspace, the primer below has backed out well over .020 (twenty thousandths).

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/09/92-1.jpg

The above photo and the ones below came from a Gunboards forum member who made a longer bolt head to decrease the excess headspace on a well used Enfield rifle. The bolt head was shortened, drilled and taped and a new section was screwed into position and silver soldered, heat treated and then turned down to the proper size

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/03/1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/03/2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/03/3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/03/5-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/03/6-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/09/7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...010/03/8-1.jpg

Guess what, if you don't want to go to all that work lengthening your bolt head, just use an o-ring to hold your case against the bolt face and fool your rifle into thinking your rims are much thicker when fire forming your cases.

Trust me, I tried soaking my bolt heads in Viagra and it didn't work. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the tutorial on your O-ring method, Ed.

I have been shooting Lee-Enfields for more than 40 years myself and I really get tired of people telling me about those weak old actions which murder brass. The separating brass is caused, inevitably, by case stretch. With Ed's method, you reduce firing stretch to nil just as long as your pressures are sane.

The OTHER cause of case stretch is the expander ball of your reloading dies. The sizing die sizes the casing back down to below minimum size and then, when you lower the case on your press, the expander ball drags back through the neck, stretching it. I have found that some dies actually produce MORE stretch at the neck, from a single firing, than you will get at the back end from an ill-fitting casing. This happens EVEN if you are neck-sizing only, as you should be doing for brass which now is fitted precisely to YOUR chamber. Of course, when you use one of these over-length cases, it pinches the bullet in place because it is much too long, pressure spikes, you get a flyer at the target and, if your case is anything except perfect at the back end, it nips off because the increased pressure has made your action 'spring'. You can reduce THIS cause of case separations very nearly to zero just by lubricating the insides of your case necks before sizing them.

You now have .303 brass that will last just as long as any other calibre, given that you are not running absolute barn-burner loads. LEE Collet Dies are a great help on reloading for long life with your brass, but combining Ed's O-rings with the collet dies, or combining the O-ring method with lubing the insides of the necks before neck-sizing, will give you brass which will last much longer than you thought possible.

Have fun!

geez, I've been reloading .303 for almost but not yet two years now and I've used the fire forming and Lee collet in my excercise and have gone from 2-3" groups at 100 yards using commercial factory store bought stuff but after practicing FFing and neck sizing my groups have decreased to 1.5" at the most. Now seeing how there is no "hour glass" done to the case and the o-ring centers the system, I am a little anxious to see my results using these methods. Thank you very much gentlemen!!!

no4mk1shooter

Just remember that Smellie the Canadian is older and wiser than I am and also gives out very good advice and has a lot of Enfield experience.

In smellie's very first military formation, Smellie was written up for having Moose dung on his flint lock rifle. :yikes: and they had not even invented brass cartridge cases or rubber o-rings yet. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edward Horton

no4mk1shooter

On a non-rimmed cartridge case like the .308 being fire formed for the longer chamber of the 7.62 NATO you had two choices.

1. When reloading you would seat your bullet "long" so it would touch the rifling and hold the case against the bolt face.
2. Make a false shoulder on the case neck or enlarging the neck of the case so it held the case against the bolt face.


Now here are some problems with the two methods of fire forming I listed above.

1. On the majority of used Enfield rifles, the throat is too long and you can not seat bullets out long enough to touch the rifling.
2. Creating a false shoulder can lead to and cause cracked necks due to the amount the necks are enlarged. (over working the brass)

---

Ed, can you relate your experiences where creating a false shoulder one time to create brass that is both centered in the chamber and properly sized after firing led to the cracked necks you are talking about?

I have been creating false shoulders on .303 brass for years, stretching back to well before the WWW ever existed. Read George Nonte originally describing the technique, if memory serves me correctly.

I can't recall every having cracked necks as a result of using the false shoulder technique, nor can I recall George Nonte ever writing of similar problems - granted, he has been gone from the range for some time now.

I am curious that you experienced cracked case necks after creating a false shoulder while I haven't, and wonder what you might be doing differently than me that I want to make sure I stay away from.

I intend to use the o-ring method the next time I do some brass in lieu of the tape method at the rear in conjunction with a false shoulder. I am not sure that an o-ring guarantees a case centered in the chamber in addition to keeping the base of the case against the bolt head. I am also not sure that the majority of rifles would actually show a difference one way or the other, however.

If I had some spare time, I would buy a few hundred new cases and explore the differences between all three, because I do have a pretty accurate No. 4 to play around with.

Rick

On American made Winchester and Remington cases the shoulder of the case let alone the neck of the case is over a 1/4 inch from where it belongs on the military Enfield rifle.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...houldera-1.jpg

If you noticed Optimists first case failure was a cracked neck on his destruction test of his .303 cases. Why would I want to stress the necks even more by forming a false shoulder. Why would I want to go to all the trouble of wrapping masking tape around the base of the case when all I have to do is slip a o-ring around the case and be done with it.

Rick if you like your time consuming method of fire forming cases better then by all means use it, If you can prove the o-ring doesn't hold the case against the bolt face then please prove it. If you can prove the o-ring doesn't center the rear of the case in the chamber then please prove it.

What you do NOT understand is WHY I'm pushing the o-ring method of fire forming cases, the reason is simple. We have people telling us that we should grease or lube our cases to fire form them and this creates MORE bolt thrust and excess bolt thrust can damage any rifle.

In 1929 the British military told us to not lube our cases and keep the chamber oil free.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/TBOSA1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/TBOSA2-1.jpg

In 2008 the United States Military told us to NOT lube our cartridge cases.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Rick, we have an American moderator in another forum telling everyone that the British, Canadians and Australians can't make an Enfield rifle with a centered chamber. (Honest to God) The reason he states this is because his cases are warped and banana shaped. The reason these American cases are warped and banana shaped is because the rear of American cases have smaller base diameters than "foreign" made cases, and they are NOT centered in the rear of the chamber when fired.

The second reason these American .303 cases are warped and banana shaped is because they are not made to military standards like the Prvi Partizan cases are. These European CIP cases are over .010 thicker than American made .303 ammunition and I would rate them just as good if not better than American Lake City Match cases.

Below is one of my warped banana shaped "American" cases fired in one of my Enfield rifles. I do NOT blame the British Enfield rifle for this, I blame our American made SAAMI cases that do not fit the military Enfield chamber.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../02/bent-1.jpg

In closing Rick this is a British Enfield forum and I don't feel the need to talk about long dead American gun writers who didn't give a rats A$$ about the Enfield rifle. I like to keep things simple (KISS) and false shoulders and masking tape is not on my agenda. ANYONE can slip an o-ring around a case and fire factory loaded ammunition or to fire form cases. I also don't see the need to over complicate the matter by adding "false shoulders" and masking tape to the issue.

What I have said here Rick is my opinion about the rubber o-ring method of fire forming cases that was posted by a Canadian at the old Jouster Enfield forum and I see NO reason to change it. To each his own, it works for me ;)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP5096-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MGP2717a-1.jpg

You set your sight for 400 yards with these pistol bullet reduced loads for fire forming your cases.
You pull the trigger and wait....................................

to hear the bullet hit the target at 100 yards :ugh:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nplinker-1.jpg

Now WHY would I want to mess with a good thing? ;)

A lot of the banana shaped cases come from the fact that the front end of the bolt is hanging out in the wind with no lateral support with a bolt head mounted in losey goosey threads.
Then the asymmetrical receiver takes all the load just behind the magazine box. The result is sort like stretching an irregular rubber band. The front end of the bolt trys to yaw to the right aided by the extractor pushing side ways on the slot in the barrel.

In the 1970s the American Rifleman Magazine did a long article on warped banana shaped cases fired in the M14 rifle. The culprit was small base diameter cases and uneven case wall thickness, this caused the off center case to expand more on one side when fired and when resized the cases warped and pushed the base of the case off center with the bore of the rifle.

The American Rifleman Magazine didn't blame the M14 rifle for having a losey goosey bolt. The fault lay with the cartridge case and its manufacturing methods.

Below you can see how the larger base diameter Prvi Partizan cartridge case and thicker case walls can "PREVENT" a warped banana shaped case. The Prvi Partizan cases have a larger base diameter and thicker case walls compared to the Greek HXP case which were fired in the "SAME" Enfield rifle.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...privihxp-1.jpg

The losey goosey No.4 bolt head below was caused by bolt thrust wear on the mating surfaces between the bolt body and bolt head. Please remember to remove all oil and grease from your chamber before firing your *Enfield rifle.

*Warning printed in the 1929 British Textbook of Small Arms. ;)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP2164-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rturnmax-1.jpg

If your bolt head is "hanging out in the wind" at the point of firing, you may have some serious problems with "galloping decrepitude" in your rifle.

The very front end of the bolt head is SUPPOSED to be inside the rear breeching ring of the receiver at the point of lock-up. In this position, for the bolt to be blown out if the receiver, the right side rail must stretch a fair bit. Mr Hatcher and Mr Ackley demonstrated this method of rifle dis-assembly whilst comparing action strengths decades ago. The right-side rail is the weakest part of a Lee-Enfield action. You will NEVER shear off the right-side bolt lug nor blow the rear of the receiver out before the right-side rail stretches and releases the pressure under a modicum of control.

Under lesser assault, the extractor may disappear to parts unknown and the fired case will assume an interesting configuration, but the action will not fail explosively.

However, if your rifle is 60-plus years old, and has not been near an ordnance depot for at least fifty years, all bets are off. The combination of worn components, "reconditioned" chambers and undersized brass is a recipe for excitement.

Headspace is the first thing to check; and the closer to minimum the better. The good-old .303 being a rimmed case means that this is simply the distance between the rear of the barrel and the front of the bolt face. This is much easier to establish than the relationship between known planes and imaginary lines on conical surfaces in rimless jobs.

Boltheads should not be able to be rotated more than 20 degrees past alignment with the main rib / RHS lug on the bolt. And so on. There are numerous references in the knowledge library and in tree-ware publications.

Very few of us own mint originals of these rifles. Using them causes wear, abusing them causes damage. I would like to continue using them for many years, however, as with vintage aircraft, there is a point beyond which one should not push one's luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edward Horton

Rick

On American made Winchester and Remington cases the shoulder of the case let alone the neck of the case is over a 1/4 inch from where it belongs on the military Enfield rifle.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...houldera-1.jpg

If you noticed Optimists first case failure was a cracked neck on his destruction test of his .303 cases. Why would I want to stress the necks even more by forming a false shoulder. Why would I want to go to all the trouble of wrapping masking tape around the base of the case when all I have to do is slip a o-ring around the case and be done with it.

Rick if you like your time consuming method of fire forming cases better then by all means use it, If you can prove the o-ring doesn't hold the case against the bolt face then please prove it. If you can prove the o-ring doesn't center the rear of the case in the chamber then please prove it.

What you do NOT understand is WHY I'm pushing the o-ring method of fire forming cases, the reason is simple. We have people telling us that we should grease or lube our cases to fire form them and this creates MORE bolt thrust and excess bolt thrust can damage any rifle.

In 1929 the British military told us to not lube our cases and keep the chamber oil free.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/TBOSA1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/TBOSA2-1.jpg

In 2008 the United States Military told us to NOT lube our cartridge cases.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Rick, we have an American moderator in another forum telling everyone that the British, Canadians and Australians can't make an Enfield rifle with a centered chamber. (Honest to God) The reason he states this is because his cases are warped and banana shaped. The reason these American cases are warped and banana shaped is because the rear of American cases have smaller base diameters than "foreign" made cases, and they are NOT centered in the rear of the chamber when fired.

The second reason these American .303 cases are warped and banana shaped is because they are not made to military standards like the Prvi Partizan cases are. These European CIP cases are over .010 thicker than American made .303 ammunition and I would rate them just as good if not better than American Lake City Match cases.

Below is one of my warped banana shaped "American" cases fired in one of my Enfield rifles. I do NOT blame the British Enfield rifle for this, I blame our American made SAAMI cases that do not fit the military Enfield chamber.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../02/bent-1.jpg

In closing Rick this is a British Enfield forum and I don't feel the need to talk about long dead American gun writers who didn't give a rats A$$ about the Enfield rifle. I like to keep things simple (KISS) and false shoulders and masking tape is not on my agenda. ANYONE can slip an o-ring around a case and fire factory loaded ammunition or to fire form cases. I also don't see the need to over complicate the matter by adding "false shoulders" and masking tape to the issue.

What I have said here Rick is my opinion about the rubber o-ring method of fire forming cases that was posted by a Canadian at the old Jouster Enfield forum and I see NO reason to change it. To each his own, it works for me ;)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP5096-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MGP2717a-1.jpg

You set your sight for 400 yards with these pistol bullet reduced loads for fire forming your cases.
You pull the trigger and wait....................................

to hear the bullet hit the target at 100 yards :ugh:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nplinker-1.jpg

Now WHY would I want to mess with a good thing? ;)

---

any chance tis load could put down a Pennsylvania white tail at 100-200 yards?

Thanks to this excellent discussion, I feel that I will have to begin to reload in the very near future. I will be ransacking the local libraries for books on reloading, then putting together a very basic reloading kit (classic Lee Loader, good scales, etc). As I do not get to the range as often as I would wish (once or twice a month), there is no need for an expensive setup right now. I have just finished shimming and cork bedding my 1949 FTRed No.4 Mk.1 (as per the very clear instructions I gleaned from this forum), and it will be interesting to see how she handles with commercial ammo versus reloads.

no4mk1shooter

I would "NOT" recommend this case forming plinking load for deer hunting, it is a lightly constructed pistol bullet with a softer lead core than a rifle bullet. The velocity is approximately 1700-1800 fps and it could blow up on the surface after hitting deer size game.

The entire idea behind this load is $$$ COST $$$. A cheap .312 pistol bullet and 18 grains of IMR-4759 a large bulky powder designed for reduced loads. With IMR-4759 unlike pistol powders it is impossible to double charge the case which makes it a safer load. The soft lead core of the pistol bullet helps this bullet when fired to fill the bore and make it more accurate.

You can go to the range with this load and shoot 100-200 rounds and your shoulder would still be ready for 200 more rounds.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP4691-1.jpg

The idea for this load came from the old Speer #9 loading manual, BUT it is for the 100 grain .308 Speer plinker and not the .312 diameter bullet. The Hornady .312 "IS" a safe load, look at the bottom of the 150 grain bullet load and you will see a load of 25 grains of IMR-4759 with a 150 grain bullet.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3plinker-1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edward Horton

no4mk1shooter

I would "NOT" recommend this case forming plinking load for deer hunting, it is a lightly constructed pistol bullet with a softer lead core than a rifle bullet. The velocity is approximately 1700-1800 fps and it could blow up on the surface after hitting deer size game.

---

well, it was worth asking. thanks for the info, at $16 per hundred which is less than half the cost of the projectiles I am currently using for plinking one would be foolish not to go with your advise and the results on your target are worth every penny. thanks:cheers:

also, what is the O.A.L. on your rounds?

no4mk1shooter

I have not tried different bullet O.A.L. yet and to be truthful I don't think I even moved the bullet seater from the normal 150 gr bullet setting. Don't get me wrong but its a pistol bullet and its six feet away from touching the rifling anyway. So I do think moving the bullet in or out is going to make a big difference, a longer cast bullet "yes" a really "short" pistol bullet no. A pistol bullet has a long way to "jump" before it hits the rifing.

I would recommend the .312 150 gr or 174 gr Hornady for deer hunting, they have the "inter-lock" feature and will hold together just like a Nosler partition. If you check and do a search on the 150 gr Hornady you will find the most popular load is 37-38 grains of IMR-4895 and many people use it for deer hunting.

In the years since the American Rifleman article there have been tens of thousands of rounds fired in all sorts of rifles with all sorts of brass.

The only bananas that were found came out of a Lee-Enfield brand banana maker.
No other brands of banana makers have be found. Even the tilting bolt Hakim does not produce bananas in spite of the fact that it's bolt must tilt up and down to lock and unlock.
The same brass that some attribute the problem to can be reformed to other round such as the 6.5X53R Dutch Mannlicher and reloaded many times without case head separations or bananas resulting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ireload2

In the years since the American Rifleman article there have been tens of thousands of rounds fired in all sorts of rifles with all sorts of brass.

The only bananas that were found came out of a Lee-Enfield brand banana maker.
No other brands of banana makers have be found. Even the tilting bolt Hakim does not produce bananas in spite of the fact that it's bolt must tilt up and down to lock and unlock.
The same brass that some attribute the problem to can be reformed to other round such as the 6.5X53R Dutch Mannlicher and reloaded many times without case head separations or bananas resulting.

---

That maybe the case. History shows that American made brass is the problem in Lee- Enfield rifles even those made in the USA. This thread accepts the problem and shows how to deal with it. These battle rifles are not benchrest machines though it took the world along time to equal or surpass there qualities on the range.

Bindi2

In the 1970s I had a 1943 Remington Springfield 03-A3, this American military 30-06 caused warped banana shaped cases with both Winchester and Remington cases. Warped banana shaped cases are NOT strictly related to the British Enfield rifle. "ANY" caliber rifle case with unequal case wall thickness aggravated further by a small base diameter will cause this problem.

With the proper gauges these out of round warped cases are very easy to find.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP5104-1.jpg

What I don't understand is "WHY" the same people keep coming into this Enfield forum and time after time are endlessly criticising the Enfield Rifle.

Could it be that these people just want to disrupt this forum with their comments and are here just trying to start arguments with other forum members. :rolleyes:

Bindi2

Thank you for your reply, some people don't understand what I'm trying to do. You have one military Enfield rifle and three standards for manufacturing .303 cartridge cases, American commercial SAAMI standards, European commercial CIP standards and last but not least British and Commonwealth military standards. Even the European CIP states that the .303 Enfield has headspace problems.

Delta L problem

Conflicting industry standards

The main cause for the ΔL is that the two main civilian ammunition and firearms industry standards organizations C.I.P. and SAAMI have assigned different standards for the same cartridges. This leads to officially sanctioned conflicting differences between European and American ammunition dimensions and chamber dimensions. Since C.I.P. and SAAMI do not rule nor control civilian ammunition standards worldwide other causes for conflicting standards leading to ΔL issues are also possible.

Firearm cartridges with otherwise problematic headspace

There are also some firearm calibers with problematic headspace listed by C.I.P.[2]
The headspace defined by:
Depth of rim recess

* .303 British
* .38 Sp AMU
* 6.35 Browning
* 7.65 Browning
* 9 mm Browning long


Delta L problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.I.P.

For reloading and testing purposes I have set my headspace from just kissing the rear of my American made cases which is way under .064 to .010 over the military maximum of .074. If you do a search, the people in our forums who say the least about head space are shooting Greek HXP ammunition, and the people who ask the most questions about headspace are shooting American made commercial cases and ammunition. (This tells me a great deal)

If you reload American made cases you have two choices, tighten up your headspace by changing bolt heads or tighten up your cases in the chamber using the rubber o-ring method of fire forming. The rubber o-ring is cheaper than a #3 bolt head and very easy to use when fire forming cases.

The Canadian Terry in Victoria posted the o-ring method in the old Jouster forum over five years ago and any that knew him know Terry was no fool.

In the end it doesn't matter what method you use to hold your cases against the bolt face when you fire form your cases to fit the Enfield chamber. All that really matters is that you enjoy your Enfield rifles and enjoy reloading a proven battle rifle.

For those of you who would like to read about banana shaped cases and checking case wall concentricity please click on the link below from Precision Shooting. These Banana shaped case articles were written in Precision Shooting and the American Rifleman Magazine. Please notice the date of the article below is dated January 2010.

Please notice that these warped cases can occur in ANY rifle in ANY caliber regardless of the country of manufacture and deals with cartridge case construction and manufacturing. ;)

The rubber o-ring method of fire forming .303 cases helps center the rear of the case in the chamber and helps promote even case expansion which increases accuracy of your reloaded ammunition. :thup:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...xkpzpg&cad=rja

I recently had my primary shooting rifle No4mk2 stop shooting well. It was setup by AJP and always shot great but now the bore is pretty worn, and it will pass a .303 gauge, and I thought I'd retire it. So I started using a new No4mk2, that didn't shoot well with the old load. I spoke to a guy at my club who put me onto these hornady.312dia. 174gn HPBT Matchkings that I thought might be just the ticket for my worn rifle, so I decided to do some load development on the new and the worn rifle.
I did this yesterday. and I used the" ladder method",components were Remington brass, CCI 250 magnum primers, AR2208, and Hornady .3105 174gn FMJ's for the new rifle and Hornady .312 174gn HPBT MK's for the worn one.OAL was 3.05" for both as this is my determined safe all round length to fit in any No4or SMLE mag.
I tend to err to lighter loads, but this test showed me 3 distinct clusters in both rifles, with the smallest cluster of both being the hottest end of the scale.
The smallest clusters of 7 odd consecutive rounds from each rifle was about 1" at 100m, which is just fine.
So I've now got good new loads for these rifles, and next week I'll repeat the test with AR2209 to see how that goes, as it fills the case a bit better, and I'm told it's more ideal.
Anyway if you havn't used the ladder method of load development I'd suggest looking it up and trying it as it works great and saves alot of time and rounds.
BTW both rifles had no problem approaching and at maximum loads.

All of this technical discussion is fascinating and going right over my head (I might understand it one day), so I will ask a question that I might have a chance of understanding the resulting answers - anyone have any experience of using the RCBS Universal Hand Priming Tool for repriming British .303 cases? Anyone have a particular priming setup they prefer?

I used a Lee hand priming tool for years in conjunction with a single stage press no problems just too slow for the number of reloads i do. Now use a Dillon progressive (rifles) or Hornady projector ( pistol). If i use a single stage press i always use the Lee tool ( have all the case holders) in preferrence to the press pimer tool,easier,quicker,safer,no individual handling of primers.

Lee Auto Prime Hand Priming Tool is outstanding - and at at $12.95 it is very cheap.
Lee Auto Prime Hand Priming Tool - MidwayUSA


You need to buy a shell holder, see
Lee Auto Prime Hand Priming Tool Shellholder Package of 11 - MidwayUSA

ok spinecracker,
I´m indeed using the RCBS device, but what do you want to know ? Insert the right shellholder and rod and there you go.
I prefer RCBS over the mentioned lee, because it looks more rigid. I´ve seen many cracked lees but no RCBS handprimers.
But that´s just my point of view.

bellerophon, I just wanted people's opinions regarding ease of use, any issues with using the RCBS primer, etc - I bought one yesterday, tried it out, and liked it immediately. Assuming that I am not too hamfisted, I should be good to start reloading this week :)

yeah, I think it´s a good buy ! :thup:
btw S&B cases have too small priming holes, wouldn´t bother with them.
I have PPU from Serbia and winchester is again working best, for me at least.