Type 38 Safety Issue

Hello. I was making myself familiar with my Mukden type 38 rifle, and after stripping and reassembling the bolt as per the instructions in the Arms and Militaria handbook (Skennerton), I noticed something was off with the safety. Upon engaging the safety, it no longer fully locks up the bolt and I can lift the bolt handle partway. Previously it would lock up completely. This concerns me as when I am finally able to take it to the range, I want it to function flawlessly. Has anyone else encountered this issue? If so, how did you fix it?

Could be the Safety Knob.There are three styles. Is the bolt miss matched?

type 38 arisaka safety???

Japanese Rifles of World War II by Duncan O. McCollum (1996, Paperback) 9781880677117 | eBay

If it worked fine before and isn't now, common sense says something wasn't reassembled correctly. I'd try doing that again before anything else.

Disassembled and reassembled it several times correctly. Safety still does not fully engage.

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Originally Posted by AGB-1

Could be the Safety Knob.There are three styles. Is the bolt miss matched?

type 38 arisaka safety???

Japanese Rifles of World War II by Duncan O. McCollum (1996, Paperback) 9781880677117 | eBay

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The bolt is matched. It appears to be a small tang projection.

Bolt issues seem to be common with Arisakas but if you've never had the problem, it's hard to tell someone else how to fix it. It usually comes down to the part not being correct for the rifle or not being assembled exactly right. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Photos might help.

I'm with Aragorn, if it was in working order before you took it apart then either you aren't reassembling correctly or something was broken or otherwise damaged in the process.

If you look at the photos below, I am assembling the bolt correctly, unless there is something I missed? Then there is a picture with the safety off, the safety on, and the bolt handle lifting with the safety on. And yes, I have verified that the safety knob matches the serial number on the receiver.

If you have wrong safety knob it won't work. I have been through this before.

Purchase McCollum's Book and you can figure it out.https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=44585&page=1

Read the above link.

All my rifles are buried and too difficult to access to check. Perhaps you didn't get all the gunk out of it and instead packed it in the bottom. Just a thought. I doubt you broke it cleaning it and it does seem you are putting it back together correctly and if the numbers match it should work.

Where to find serial numbers on a Type-38?

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Originally Posted by AGB-1

If you have wrong safety knob it won't work. I have been through this before.

Purchase McCollum's Book and you can figure it out.https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=44585&page=1

Read the above link.

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Hi there. I have verified that the bolt and safety knob are numbers matching with the receiver.

Arisaka Type 38 Questions

Read: posts #2 and #3. Post #3 carefully about matching numbers.

Like I have said, I have checked the bolt several and the knob several times. The numbers match.

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Originally Posted by AGB-1

If you have wrong safety knob it won't work. I have been through this before.

Purchase McCollum's Book and you can figure it out.https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=44585&page=1

Read the above link.

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It may not be a drop in fit due to mfg tolerances but otherwise with a little fitting the three variations are interchangeable. At least that's been my experience.

ML, its been a couple years since I fooled with an Arisaka but when I get home this evening I'll dig one out and refresh my memory on a couple things. In the mean time try engaging your safety again by hitting the knob smartly with the heel of your hand then turn it in. Sometimes it takes a good whack to get the parts settled in again after disassembly.

ETA: after refreshing my memory on how the Arisaka safety works I'm of the opinion that either your spring is weak, or hanging on something and not letting the safety knob fully engage. First try giving it a good whack with the heel of your hand as advised above. If that doesn't do it pull the bolt and disassemble it. See the small square lug on the bolt body behind the bolt handle? Thats what keeps the bolt from opening with the safety engaged. It fits into the square notch in the safety skirt. Next, do you see the lug on the safety stem that fits in the tracks inside the striker? And finally do you see the pawl at the bottom of the safety knob that rides in the track in the reciever? It serves as a guide and a stop for the knob so it cant be rotated too much. It stops the knob in precisely the right spot to let the lug on the safety stem change tracks inside the striker, if the timing is not spot on the safety wont work properly. Measure the spring, I checked 3 of mine and they are between 3 11/16" and 4 1/16" in length. Make sure they aren't broken or kinked. Next, take the striker and with the spring out insert the safety knob, with the striker oriented so sear catch is at 6 o'clock, like it would be if it were in the rifle, manipulate the safety in its tracks to make sure there are no burrs or debris impeding it operation. When you reassemble it put a dab of grease on the spring, safety knob stem and outside of the strike to lube everything so they move freely against one another. If all that checks out I'm at a loss...

I was talking with a friend about this issue today and he and I both came to the conclusion that if it worked before, I am following the correct procedure for disassembly and reassembly, and if it is numbers matching, then something is keeping the striker from fully cocking back upon closing the action. When he researched the matter, the information he found stated that the striker must be fully cocked in order for the bolt to lock up when the safety is on. It is, at least, a direction for me to go in.

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Originally Posted by MLMaier01

I was talking with a friend about this issue today and he and I both came to the conclusion that if it worked before, I am following the correct procedure for disassembly and reassembly, and if it is numbers matching, then something is keeping the striker from fully cocking back upon closing the action. When he researched the matter, the information he found stated that the striker must be fully cocked in order for the bolt to lock up when the safety is on. It is, at least, a direction for me to go in.

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Dont know where he got the info but arisakas dont have a half cock notch, and I'm reasonable sure that the striker has to be fully cocked before the bolt will even close. Nor can you hold the trigger back while closing the bolt to release spring tension like you can other designs.
Did you do as I suggested and whack the knob good with the heel of your hand ? One of mine has a slight kink in the spring and when I take the bolt apart and reassemble it the safety wont fully engage until I whack the knob to get everything in its proper place. After that it works fine until I take the bolt apart again.

No, there is no half cock. That much is true for almost every bolt action rifle. What he means is that the cocking piece or spring is hanging up on something.

I haven't had a chance to try those things yet. I will have another look at it tomorrow and let you know what I find.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

It may not be a drop in fit due to mfg tolerances but otherwise with a little fitting the three variations are interchangeable. At least that's been my experience.

ML, its been a couple years since I fooled with an Arisaka but when I get home this evening I'll dig one out and refresh my memory on a couple things. In the mean time try engaging your safety again by hitting the knob smartly with the heel of your hand then turn it in. Sometimes it takes a good whack to get the parts settled in again after disassembly.

ETA: after refreshing my memory on how the Arisaka safety works I'm of the opinion that either your spring is weak, or hanging on something and not letting the safety knob fully engage. First try giving it a good whack with the heel of your hand as advised above. If that doesn't do it pull the bolt and disassemble it. See the small square lug on the bolt body behind the bolt handle? Thats what keeps the bolt from opening with the safety engaged. It fits into the square notch in the safety skirt. Next, do you see the lug on the safety stem that fits in the tracks inside the striker? And finally do you see the pawl at the bottom of the safety knob that rides in the track in the reciever? It serves as a guide and a stop for the knob so it cant be rotated too much. It stops the knob in precisely the right spot to let the lug on the safety stem change tracks inside the striker, if the timing is not spot on the safety wont work properly. Measure the spring, I checked 3 of mine and they are between 3 11/16" and 4 1/16" in length. Make sure they aren't broken or kinked. Next, take the striker and with the spring out insert the safety knob, with the striker oriented so sear catch is at 6 o'clock, like it would be if it were in the rifle, manipulate the safety in its tracks to make sure there are no burrs or debris impeding it operation. When you reassemble it put a dab of grease on the spring, safety knob stem and outside of the strike to lube everything so they move freely against one another. If all that checks out I'm at a loss...

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No burrs, nothing impeding the operation of any sort. Spring is 4.01 inches long, and is undamaged. Timing is all correct. Still, the bolt will not lock up. I am at a loss too. I do not want to accept this situation. I do not feel safe firing this rifle unless the safety completely locks up the bolt when engaged.

Having disassembled and reassembled the bolt on my sporterized Arisaka type 38, it locks up perfectly. The numbers have been ground off or otherwise worn away so there is no way for me to tell if the numbers on it match or not. Why would the safety work on what is likely a hodge-podge of parts and not on one where all the serial numbers match. This is really starting to get annoying.

Since you have two, take them both apart and compare the pieces being careful not to mix them up. See if something looks different.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Since you have two, take them both apart and compare the pieces

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Exactly, should give you a clear picture. Bet you don't even need to make detailed measurements.

I have discovered something ever so curious. My sporter 38 is a Koshikawa with the large protrusion type safety. My mil-spec is a Mukden which all had the small protrusion. On a whim, I installed the large protrusion knob on my Mukden and it locked up the bolt completely. In fact the non-matching safety knob worked perfectly. The same cannot be said of the small protrusion safety knob on the sporter though. In fact, the small protrusion knob will not even engage at all. This is a bizarre set of circumstances.

Did I not point this out in post #2? About the differences in safety knobs?

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Originally Posted by AGB-1

Did I not point this out in post #2? About the differences in safety knobs?

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You may have pointed it out but you continue going on the assumption the safety he has is not the correct one which he has pointed out numerous times that it is matching to the rifle. It also worked before he cleaned it.

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Originally Posted by AGB-1

Did I not point this out in post #2? About the differences in safety knobs?

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All you pointed out really was a misleading post on another forum and a link to an ebay auction for a book the guy used as referrence.
What the guy at gun boards is saying is there 3 different knob configurations and that they were made by at least 5 different arsenals to, I assume, inform the OP that if he's looking to keep his rifle "correct" type and manufacturer matter. Not once does he say the different types or arsenals are not interchangeable.
In fact post 22 above proves they are interchangeable.

To a degree. The safety knob from the Mukden will fit on the bolt from my Koshikawa sporter, but it will not engage. I think this has something to do with the dimensions of the protrusion on the bottom. I measured them, they are both .230 wide, but the protrusion on the Mukden knob is taller. I have ordered another small tang safety knob to compare and contrast and see if this characteristic is common to all small tang safety knobs, or if the one on mine is defective in some way.

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Originally Posted by MLMaier01

To a degree. The safety knob from the Mukden will fit on the bolt from my Koshikawa sporter, but it will not engage. I think this has something to do with the dimensions of the protrusion on the bottom. I measured them, they are both .230 wide, but the protrusion on the Mukden knob is taller. I have ordered another small tang safety knob to compare and contrast and see if this characteristic is common to all small tang safety knobs, or if the one on mine is defective in some way.

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Arisaka safeties, like mauser, Springfield, Winchester 70 ect.,sometimes require fitting before they'll work smoothly. The Mukden knob could easily be made to work in the Koishikawa if need be.
Theres something very simple that you've overlooked keeping the original safety from working properly.

With all Jap rifles an most military rifles.You must remember that under the condition of war parts were made to be interchangeable. Only small hand fitting should be needed. In the field one part didnt work they grabbed another. Be thankful that you can get another safety knob. I must watch the firearms we have for sale at gun shows due to theft of those plus firing pins. We lost 2 at the last big show.