sighting target and shooting jack

[mac1911]

I was reading the us army weapons maintenance book for overhaul of the rifle us 30 Cal m1.
On the section where it describes accuracy and testing they mention a "target" and a "shooting jack" that is used.
Does any one have a picture of these items?

[mac1911]

Found the "targeting diagram, http://www.nicolausassociates.com/PDF/M1Target.pdf
Now the "shooting jack" ?

[browningautorifle]

The standard for the group isn't very rigid...5.6 " at 100.

[mac1911]

The standard for the group isn't very rigid...5.6 " at 100.

Yes you are correct, actually per the specs in the US manual dated 1965 I bought from the cmp its 1.77" group @ 1000" inches. Im just curious to the "target" which I have found and now looking to see the "targeting jack" looked like?
So if your M1 can put 5 rounds inside a 3.44" W x 5.11" T rectangle while aiming at a 2"W x 1.5"T semi circle centered in the block and then keep those shots with in a 1.77" dia its good to go... so basically your rifle can shoot close to 3" low or high and a 1"+ left or right from point of aim and be good as long as it holds a 1.77" group.... Me personally I am happy if I can hold the black with my garands

[Patrick Chadwick]

Me personally I am happy if I can hold the black with my garands

Don't be happy! Garands can do much, much better than 1.77" @ 1000"

More like 1.77" at 100 meters:

Attachment 52178
The hole in the 8 ring at 5 o'clock is two sighters. One click left and 3 up - and it was ready to go. The "Cineshot" is off-the shelf commercial ammo with a 150 gn projectile.

This is (as far as I can tell - and I really have looked) an all-original Garand, made 10-43, although it is conceivable that the (unmarked) stock is a later replacement. But everything that is marked is correct for the period - including the barrel!

[Bob Seijas]

Yes, the M1 can shoot better groups than the minimum acceptable size in 1944 -- but SA was turning out 100,000 a month for hastily-trained GIs to carry into combat. A 5" group fits nicely in an enemy chest.

[browningautorifle]

Agreed. The probability of a hit is greater that way too...strangely enough. In mortar platoon we called it probable error and dispersion...the 85% zone.

[Patrick Chadwick]

The probability of a hit is greater that way too...strangely enough.

Simple scattergun logic: if I shoot perfectly accurately, with a rifle that produces a 1MOA group, but the sights are 5MOA off center, then all shots will (quite accurately!) miss the black! If I shoot really crappily, with the same rifle, and enough shots, then eventually - by pure chance - some shots will land in the black.

I think that the test target we are talking about has two aspects:

1) Is the group "usable" (not good, just usable) for everyday battlefield use?
To which the answer was presumably "yes" if it produced the required group.

2) Is the POI within the adjustment range of the sights?
I think that was the purpose of the outside line on the test target. The rifle was set with a standard sight setting. If the group was within the outer boundary line, then there was enough adjustment range to set it to zero - an adjustment which could be made in service - and so it could be shipped out. I doubt that it was seriously intended that the setting would be left indefinitely - after all, what were the adjustable sights for, if not to correct the zero POI?

In other words, if the rifle passed the test target, it was good enough to be sent out to the troops, but would have surely been further adjusted "on site" by the "end user".

[mac1911]

Simple scattergun logic: if I shoot perfectly accurately, with a rifle that produces a 1MOA group, but the sights are 5MOA off center, then all shots will (quite accurately!) miss the black! If I shoot really crappily, with the same rifle, and enough shots, then eventually - by pure chance - some shots will land in the black.

I think that the test target we are talking about has two aspects:

1) Is the group "usable" (not good, just usable) for everyday battlefield use?
To which the answer was presumably "yes" if it produced the required group.

2) Is the POI within the adjustment range of the sights?
I think that was the purpose of the outside line on the test target. The rifle was set with a standard sight setting. If the group was within the outer boundary line, then there was enough adjustment range to set it to zero - an adjustment which could be made in service - and so it could be shipped out. I doubt that it was seriously intended that the setting would be left indefinitely - after all, what were the adjustable sights for, if not to correct the zero POI?

In other words, if the rifle passed the test target, it was good enough to be sent out to the troops, but would have surely been further adjusted "on site" by the "end user".

Again thank you for input. I'm just looking for pictures of the equipment used. As stated above and I agree. This target was not a "zeroing" target but just a "test" to assure the rifles where coming off the line with a "precieved" amount of accuracy. Once in the field the rifle was zero'd by the end use. "This is my rifle" .
So far all of my rifles shoot very well off the rifle rest. What I Kent was "I" am happy when "I" can shoot my garands and hold the black. My other HRA with new stock with some tweaking and nosler 168s has surprised me with some sub 3" groups just dancing around 2" and keeping just under 3" regularly. I for the most part can not deliver that off the rest.