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imarangemaster
11-22-2012, 02:46 AM
Hornady will be releasing its new "Critical Defense" 110 grain JSP ammo. It features a polymer ball in a hollowpoint nose to insure slick feeding. I use Hornady Critical Defense ammo in my .380 CZ83 carry weapon. Very slick feeding.

It is loaded to its full potential at 2,000 fps from an 18" barrel. At 200 yards, it still has 400 pounds of muzzle energy, more than most 9mms at the muzzle.

Critical Defense® 30 Carbine from Hornady® - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tquUyY74O6Y)

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 30 Carbine :: 30 M1 CARBINE 110 GR FTX Critical Defense (http://www.hornady.com/store/30-M1-CARBINE-110-GR-FTX-CD)

I have been happy with the R-P 110 JSPs, but am intrigued by this because of how exceptional Critical Defense ammo has been performing in other calibers.

Speer produces their Gold Dot in 30 carbine that is supposed to be exceptional, opening up to .602" diameter in ballistic gelatin. It is impossible to find, however, even though it was introduced in 2010.

M1 Carbines - M4Carbine.net Forums (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19956)

Clash77
11-22-2012, 03:21 AM
Very interesting. I think I'll have to try those whenever they become available

JimF4M1s
11-22-2012, 11:34 AM
Cheaper then Dirt lists the Speer Gold Dot


Ammo .30 Carbine Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection 110 Grain SP 1990 fps 20 Round Box 24465
(http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/63387)

jmoore
11-22-2012, 03:55 PM
IIRC the new SAGE website lists a stock for the M1 carbine. If it improves the accuracy of the carbine as reliably as it has the M14, and doesn't weigh a ton, there may be a wave of modernization yet to come for this platform. Wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit.

ABPOS
11-22-2012, 08:25 PM
Great thread.

INLAND44
11-23-2012, 06:43 PM
I might try some of that premium ammo, esp. the one with the poly ball, just to see the best groups I can get. I don't plan to use my carbine for anything like defense, but I imagine that stuff would tear up some zombies!

ABPOS
11-23-2012, 09:20 PM
And it might group well too, like you said. I've found Hornady to usually be pretty good stuff.

JimF4M1s
11-23-2012, 09:27 PM
It's $1.50 a round.

imarangemaster
11-24-2012, 11:47 AM
In my Standard Products that I use as a patrol Carbine, I have two X 15 rounders with R-P 110 grain SPs in the stock pouch, and a 30 rounder in the weapon. I have four X 30 rounders with R-P 110 grain FMJ, the rational being that if I am reloading from the pouch, it is "combat," shooting from cover at barricaded zombies. The 30 in the weapon, I have loaded with 15 JSPs on top, and 15 FMJs in the bottom, for basically the same reason. The top of the magazine, I want SP for face to face, where bear, mountain lion, or homicidal drug cartel planters in the USFS lands by our assets. By the time I get to the bottom of the magazine, the situation has evolved to a barricade situation. I had considered alternating JSP/FMJ every other round. Some tactical gurus suggest that with SMG magazines.

imarangemaster
11-24-2012, 12:17 PM
It's $1.50 a round.

Ouch! I am not surprised, though, as R-P soft points are are about $0.90 to $0.95 a round. I did find a place in Sacramento that has Prvi Partizan (PPU) JSPs for $22/50. I bought a couple boxes to see how it feeds. Before Walmart quit carrying it, I was paying $26/50 of the R-P FMJs.

imarangemaster
11-24-2012, 12:30 PM
Here's some tests of 30 Carbine JSPs in water jugs from an AMT Automag III, which would be about the same as a M1 Carbine at 100 yards...

Speer Gold Dot, 110gr, GDSP, .30 Carbine #24465, VS Water Jugs - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-LG-v1d7s)

Prvi Partizan .30 Carbine, 110gr JSP(A-204) VS Water Jugs: 6.5 Barrel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ab9iJPz2HI)

ABPOS
11-24-2012, 02:15 PM
It's $1.50 a round.

Yeah, that's hurts, don't it.

wensteph
11-30-2012, 09:25 PM
I use Speer Gold Dots for a defense round, but maybe FMJ works better than we thought. Military channel video on Foreign Legion weapons. Start watching at 5:00 for a clay block comparison of the 30-06 to the 30 carbine.

Weaponology : French Foreign Legion - part 4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L6SyFPvTDEY)

EdL
12-07-2012, 03:42 AM
Just a word of caution, be sure to fire at least 2 magazines of the softpoints through any magazines you plan to use in self defense. Preferably more. I know it can get expensive, but consider the cost of a failure to feed when you need the gun to defend yourself.

I have 2 milsurp carbines, an underwood and an NPM, and neither of them are reliable with hollowpoints or softpoints to the point that I would trust them. I've run Remington SPs, Privi SPs, and Corbon hollwopoints. It seems that the bigger the lead section on the tip of the nose, the greater the chance of failure to feed. The Privi Partisan SPs, which had the most exposed lead, encountered the most malfunctions. I don't think I got through a 20 round box of Corbon Hollowpoints without a malfunction.

The Remington Soft Points seemed to do the best, since they had the least lead exposed. But I still encountered feeding problems with them.

I spoke to Clint of Fulton armory and he recommended against the use of softpoints in M1 carbines because of function issues and the possible accumulation of lead in the chamber that might lead to more malfunctions from lead buildup.

My tests certainly are not the most exhaustive, but I would suggest aggressive testing before relying on softpoints for defensive purposes in the M1 carbine.

I have not tested this new critical defense load for the .30 carbine. It looks to have the best chance of reliable feeding due to the plastic cap, But just the same, I would urge anyone planning to rely on this load to test it with the same magazine or magazines that they plan to use in the gun for defensive purposes.

Donzi
12-09-2012, 06:48 PM
The M1 carbine was specfically designed, from day 1, from the ground up, to use a FMJ US military .30 cal.carbine round. Why is anyone surprised that it generally performs less well w/a different round? The cartridge was designed before the design trials for the carbine were even held. So, again, why are we surprised? JMHO, of course.
Donzi

imarangemaster
12-10-2012, 06:38 PM
I don't think anyone surprised that some carbines/magazines don't like to feed soft points. I think that in a world where everyone is used to soft points, they are disappointed, though. In the 40s, 50s, 60s, and even into the 70s, most of the semi-pistol ammo that was fired was FMJ, so people were used to just using FMJs in their carbines.

I have had a carbine or two that did not feed softpoints reliably no matter what I did. I had an Underwood about ten years ago, that seemed like it would jam, even if there was a box of softpoionts on the shooting bench! I did not keep it long. I did not carry any that had feed issues with softpoints as a duty weapon. I would trade them off for another.

My last four carbines: Mash Az import underwood mix-master, CMP Inland, current un-messed with Inland and Standard Products all have fed R-P 110 JSPs reliably from USGI mags. All of these were gone through and detail stripped and cleaned, recoil springs replaced, and ejector and extractor springs replaced. All of my 30 round mags have new USGI 30 round springs in them.

EdL
12-12-2012, 02:58 AM
Good to know, Imarangemaster.

I'm just reporting my limited experience with my 2 M1 carbines.

Since I have other guns that I use for home defense or could use for home defense, I don't have to worry about my carbines functioning with softpoints.

If I had to use them for defensive purposes I would use FMJ since that is what they have proven to be reliable with.

imarangemaster
12-12-2012, 06:54 AM
I posted this in another thread about my Standard Products Mix-master, but it is actually appropriate here:

"WOW! I just did an additional function test on the Standard Products at work tonight. I found a local source for 110 JSP PPU (Prvi Partizan) at $23 a box of 50. Using my AYP 30 round magazines and the Standard Products, I first checked for POA compared to the RP ammo I have been using. At 25 yards, the POA was the same as the Remington. I then shot 2 magazines of 30 110 JSP PPU ammo, as fast as I could pull the trigger. Zero malfunctions. Fed slick as ball ammo. So far this SP carbine feeds R-P 110 FMJ and 110 JSP, Lake City Vietnam era ammo, and now PPU soft point. In several hundred rounds from 30 round magazines, I have zero malfunctions."

Tired Retired
12-12-2012, 11:39 PM
RM,

I have been using Remington SP bullets and making my own reloads. Make them to spec with proper COL. Never had a problem with ANY of my carbines eating those. I also use a combination of USGI 15 rd mags, 15 rd Korean mags and 30 rd Korean mags. The Remingtons do have the smaller area of exposed lead, but I think the real reason is quality control. As far as the reloads,, I actually TRUST my own reloads (been doing carbine ammo for close to 30 years).

As far as reliability, I seem to read periodically about a NYPD cop who used the carbne on a robbery squad (long day - I can't remember his name). Story is that he used hollowpoint or Sp bullets and never had a problem. I do believe that the "trick" is a combo is good ammo, good magazines AND a good mag release that holds the mag in place. Also having a smooth feeding ramp helps too.

Just my two cents

imarangemaster
12-13-2012, 02:46 AM
Jim Cirillo was the NYPD stake out squad guy. Interesting character!