CMP SG M1 Carbine...

[ramit]

Just received in my Carbine I had on order with the CMP.
It's been a long wait...


Thanks for looking, I have some questions based on the markings, hope you can help and let me know what and why.....

Finish is really good, rear sight, front sight, barrel, and receiver match in a black color. No pitting.

Receiver NPM ~Nov 43
Barrel Inland Jan 44 barrel
The dates are soo close it's weird.
I'm assuming by the color and it being an Inland barrel it's a rebuild?

On the bottom of the barrel, near the receiver, there are a ton of markings, any clue to what they mean?

But bore is bright, rifling is good.

Nice old original low wood with flat bottom forestock.
No marks on the stock, could only find a "T" on the bridge in the wood.
What does the "T" stand for?

The bolt is an old flat bolt, original greenish finish, matches nothing else on the rifle, typical mix master I assume.
Some very very very minor pitting in one or two spots.

The trigger group is blued. and a U in the mag well.
Seems to be Bavarian markings. The CMP note tag has BAV on it too... so I'm guessing it's so. 30 rnd mag latch in it.
Almost looks like the trigger guard was repaired, where the hoop meets the flat the "Bavarian" markings are on.??

Front sight an "N", original NPM sight?

Rear sight, milled, "P1"


The slide has an "M" on the inside on the flat, then the last 4 # of the s/n etched in. This M matches the M on the top of the barrel infront of the receiver.
Inside the front block of the slide there looks to be a "W" in there.
Looks different than the "M" on the flat of the slide.
What do these markings mean?

Like the slide, the bayo lug has the last 4 # of s/n eteched in on the bottom.
Are they there from those parts following the receiver during a rebuild?



http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-rifle1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-rifle2.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-rifle3.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-barrel.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...rel-bottom.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...eiver-side.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ceiver-top.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ear-sight1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ear-sight2.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ear-sight3.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...1-09-bolt2.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...1-09-bolt1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-1-09-band.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...lug-bottom.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ggergroup1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ggergroup2.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ggergroup3.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-slide1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-slide2.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-slide3.jpg


Thanks for looking and for the education...

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[painter777]

ramit,
I borrowed this info posted by fellow member Gunner from another post......
The " LGKOÖ " means "Landesgendarmerie-Kommando Oberösterreich". So thats an Austrian carbine.

To try to help answer some of your questions,
The 'hieroglyphics' markings on the barrel flat are thought to be different inspection markings, only found on Inland barrels.

I can't say if this barrel and receiver are original to each, but in looking at the pic you posted....the finish on the barrel just in front of the gas chamber looks as though a Type II band may have rested there when it was getting parked. I can't be sure but here's a link......
http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...eiver-side.jpg

Your stock looks to be a Winchester. The angled or tapered cut in front of the slingwell can be found on Winchester stocks. Yours has the flat bottom known to WRA. Under the buttplate are probably 3 holes.
Any sign of a tiny W in the slingwell?
A letter or number is often found on the wood bridge of WRA stocks, sometimes along the right shelf also, Thought to be inspection or shift stamps...



In this picture it looks like there might be a faint outline of just the WRA sized CC, exactly halfway between the oiler slot and pistol grip......

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-rifle2.jpg

The Type I N marked frt sight was commonly used by Inland, NPM and others.
Can anyone make out the maker of his bolt?
Is it a Stan Pro?
http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...1-09-bolt1.jpg
The PI marked rear sight is Packard for Inland.
The W or M you see on the rear top of the barrel and inside the op slide arm along with the last 4 #'s has been added by the Austrians.
The W inside the op slide is a Winchester marking. Their heavy milling scars are common.
Oh,
And your trigger housing is the Type IV made from layers of sheet steel, then brazed together. The parking never colors the braze lines like the rest. Not a repair. It is Underwood, who was the developer of this type of housing. Made it cheaper and faster to produce.

I'm trying here....hope I've helped some.

Regards
Charlie-painter777

[rondog]

Congrats!!! Those are neat little rifles, I'm glad I finally scored one!

[ramit]

Tnx rondog...


whoooo, tnx very much painter777 .

I have what looks like a T on the bridge, it was about the only mark I could find.

I'll look again in the sling well.

here's the hand guard marking...

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...handguard1.jpg

And here's a shot of the "T" on the bridge area.
http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...ock-bridge.jpg

I'll be back with two more shoots, one of the sling well, sometimes stuff shows up with flash, that doesn't in natural light, and a better shot of the stock between the sling well and pistol grip. And a wider view of the inside of the stock...


So it seems, while I didn't order an Austrian carbine, I did get one?

[ramit]

I've left these pix very large, so your browser may re-size them to fit in the browser window, if so, clicking on the pix will make your browser show them in their full size.

I hope they help you see what you thought you were seeing..... or more info you were looking for...

Again, thank you for the help and for the education.


Here's close up with flash of the butt stock between the sling well and pistol grip....

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...buttstock1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...buttstock2.jpg



Pix of the butt plate on and then off...

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...7-09-butt1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...7-09-butt2.jpg



pix of the stock with receiver and barrel assy removed...

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-stock1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-stock2.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...-09-stock3.jpg


Pix of the sling well.....

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...slingwell1.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...slingwell2.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...slingwell3.jpg

http://www.tdr4x4.com/im/g/cmp_npm_c...slingwell4.jpg

[painter777]

Your Type III 4 rivet Hand guard I don't recognize.
Only 'W' Winchester and 'OI', 'HI' Inland had the 4 rivet made for them. Other makers did make post war Type III HG's for replacement parts. Post war made from Walnut and Birch, many unmarked.
I can't see a W in the slingwell........but you can't on many. Plenty were lightly struck in the rough grain and wore off. Some were never stamped.
A couple other ways to tell if it's a Winchester stock would be to look at the bottom where the escutheon nut is.
These pictures show the slope found on WRA stocks.....


Also on the bottom.....from the frt on the magwell opening towards the frt of the stock........you'll feel a recessed area that runs about 2 1/2" then raises the farther you get towards the nose......

Also compare the milling style on this Winchester stock in frt of the bridge to yours........

I'm confident you have a WRA stock.........now if you just had this stamp......you'd be all set......

And YES you've got a Austrian on your hands.
Enjoy it and Thanks for sharing it with us.

Cheers
Charlie-painter777

[ramit]

Charlie, again, a big thanks...

The milling matches.

I can feel the profile your talking about, but not sure I can capture it on camera, but tried profile shot provided.

Not sure about my escutcheon nut, I think I see what your talking about on the photos you kindly provided. And if so, I don't see that "well" on mine.
But the grain on mine is soo raised.

And we know my markings are long gone. The stock is VERY rough, almost like it was "distressed" and rough sanded on purpose to make it easier to hold.
Or maybe it's the type of wood, a very very raised grain?
I don't know a thing about the different wood used to make the stocks.

Here's some additional pix...

[painter777]

The outside of these stocks took a beating over the years. Mag pouches on the stock added alot of wear.
But.......the inside can't lie.
Seeing the marked bridge and the size of the cutting heads used to mill out the area for the op slide box....along with The flat underside of the forearm, angled cut at the slingwell, angle around the escutheon and 3 holes under the butt plate tells me that's a WRA stock.
More than likely sanded and refinished a few times over the years. No butt plate overhang to really speak of.
That trigger housing is the Type IV ... known to show more reveal than the milled ones,,, IMHO.
Nice grab for the $$

Thanks again for sharing your find with us.
Try checking out this members site, lots of good info about the Austrians use of USGI carbines.....
Civilian Marksmanship Program

Cheers
Charlie-painter777

[Derrick R.]

Nice carbine Ramit . I think your hand guard is a springfield armory made guard. I have some that just have the A and some that just have the S with the A barely visable. Again nice score. Derrick

[ramit]

Charlie, again, thnx a BUNCH for the help and insight.

So far, with my two CMP purchases (HRA Garand and this carbine), I'm batting 1,000, I feel.

I originally ordered this carbine to be a shooter. (wife and daughter like shooting the carbines, but not Garands)
I know with the CMP, it's all luck of the draw.

If I can trouble you for one last question, your opinion please (and others , plz chime in as well)...
Since it's an Austrian return, with most likely a battle worn stock, should it be a shooter or a treasure (not to be a family shooter - but occasional shooter)?

Nice carbine Ramit . I think your hand guard is a springfield armory made guard. I have some that just have the A and some that just have the S with the A barely visable. Again nice score. Derrick

Thank you Derrick.
I'll look much closer for the "S" .... much appreciated.


I've learned much here.