Unertl Scope Battery Reset

[Sniper1944]

Hi all,

With the main recoil spring being removed from USMC Unertl 03A1's, obviously the scope has to be pulled back into the battery position after each shot. I have read that Marines came up with various methods achieve this, (either manually by hand or automatically through using the recoil of the rifle I do not know).

Although, in any period picture I have seen of the rifle and scope, there are no indications of a device to do this. Doe's anyone have any pictures showing examples that could help with my research?






Thanks,

Paul.

Information

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[JGaynor]

The purpose of the recoil absorber was to return the scope to its normal position after the discharge of a shot. In the mid 30's Townsend Whelen wrote a small book on telescopic sights. In his opinion the recoil springs were only appropriate on small bore rifles or relatively heavy rifles shooting milder center fire cartridges like the the .25-20. His reasoning was that the force of the spring propelling the scope tended to bang up the mounts (when used with heavier cartridges). When the USMC ordered their Unertl scopes in WW2 they specified that the recoli/return springs be omitted. Some sources have speculated that this had something do with a desire to prevent sand "scoring the tube". Possibly but I think the people who were behind the use of the Unertl may have been more influenced by the opinion of Col. Whelen.

There a number of pictures of this rifle in use in various references. Off the top of my head i don't recall any with any sort of improvised recoil absorber.

Regards,
Jim

[emmagee1917]

I have read the sand reason , and I've also read that with the 30-06's recoil , the scope would stay in place , compressing the spring while the rifle moved back , then would snap the scope back into the shooter's head. Also , the bolts on these guns were not bent ala 1903A4 . It was no problem firing the shot , working the bolt , then pulling the scope back over the bolt handle. It was also easier to set the safety if wanted . I think a combination of all these reasons lead to the leaving out of the spring.
And yes , they were pulled back by hand . They rode on a rail to prevent rotation and were just pulled back till they hit the stop .
Chris

[JerryB08]

Does anyone know of the Unertl being used in combat in WW2, Korea or Nam with any other rifle?

[Mike D]

Didn't somebody put one on a fifty cal?

[Sniper1944]

Cheers for the replies so far guys, all interesting.

I too have read about the sand theory, but it's more plausible that the spring would have caused issues during recoil so was omitted.

With the scope having to be pulled back into battery, I'd imagine the time to get in a position ready to fire again is a fair amount more protracted than with a hard mounted scope?





Paul.

[JGaynor]

With the scope having to be pulled back into battery, I'd imagine the time to get in a position ready to fire again is a fair amount more protracted than with a hard mounted scope?

For a combat sniping rifle a compact scope in a rigid but quick detachable mount is a much better idea than a two foot long target scope.
It will be interesting to see how the new crop of Chinertls does at this years Vintage Sniper Match. Last year the much maligned M1903A4 (or clones thereof) took most of the honors.

Regards,
Jim

[mike radford]

For a combat sniping rifle a compact scope in a rigid but quick detachable mount is a much better idea than a two foot long target scope.
It will be interesting to see how the new crop of Chinertls does at this years Vintage Sniper Match. Last year the much maligned M1903A4 (or clones thereof) took most of the honors.

Regards,
Jim

Yea, using this scope in combat must have been a real challenge, especially in PTO. Amazing that Carlos H. was still using them with success in Nam, but the Marines have always made the best of what they had. Personnally, the PU's he took on, were probably a better rifle for the environment in which they were used IMO. They were consistent with what Jim says, compact, rigid and fairly quick to detach. The basic Mosin comes with the only tool you would need, a combo tool with a screw driver and firing pin protrusion tool. Time to remove, about 10-15 seconds. Remember, Carlos said on video tape that after I shot him and saw the bullet had gone thru the scope and into his eye, "it occurred to me that I was in his crosshair and had I not been a spit second faster on the trigger, I would not be here"(not exact quote but just of it).

There was a link to a couple groups shot with one of these Repro Unertls, shot by a guy named Mike something in OK. He is gonna use the rifle in the Vintage Sniper matches. They were sub one inch at 100 yds. I wonder if it is the same Mike that was one of the two team members who won overall last time? In that match they used what he stated to be a stock Gibbs A4, with original Gibbs installed barrel and stock and an original Weaver, not Gibbs, scope. I should have one of these repro Unertls any time. Shipped Monday at 5PM.

Looking at a bunch of the pictures from the big VS Match, there were dozens of folks using replicas or real 1903A1 USMC snipers with Unertls. None placed high. CMP had already allowed other Unertls refitted to be 8X or commercial 8X to be used. I could see a ton of them in the pictures. I thought that they would shine and was surprised a 2.5X weaver on what should be a lesser rifle, Gibbs A4, would come out on top.

On resetting the scope, that can be done very quickly. The problem is forgetting. Having used one quite a bit, I can tell you I have forgotten to reset it about 10-15% of the time. It does not make a huge difference in POI.

[vintage hunter]

These repro Unertls, are they USMC marked and numbered? Who's selling them?

[MilitaryArms]

Last year the much maligned M1903A4 (or clones thereof) took most of the honors.

Regards,
Jim

I can see why. I own one of the Gibbs rifles and the accuracy it is capable of is nothing short of amazing. I don't know why they're maligned, I couldn't be happier with the performance of my rifle.