Winchester P14 markings

[Gavvymusic]

HI Guys. Can you be gentle with me cos I’m a virgin on this site.
The name is Gav. I like to consider myself to be suave (as in SuaveGav) but nobody else seems to see it that way.

Anyway I picked up a P14 couple of years back and I’ve recently taken an interest in its markings and history. So I was wondering if I could now pick you guys’ brains?
I’ve done a bit of digging on the Net and got Messrs Skennerton and Stratton to give me a hand with their “Broad Arrow” and “Pattern 1914 and U.S. Model of 1917” pubs.

I would love to know the date of manufacture and acceptance of my wee toy.

Also I wonder if you guys you could tell me if I’m on the right track with my findings and maybe come up with suggestions at the bits that have stumped me.

I've tried to upload pics in numerical order but they've got mixed up.

In general terms what I’m thinking is that the rifle is a Winchester P14 Mk I made during or before December 1916.
During its life it has had the rear leaf sight and rear volley arm with peep removed and a cheek piece and Parker Hale PH5B rear sight added. There’s also a Parker Hale sling swivel

WOOD-WISE

The condition of the wood seems very good despite its age. [001 & 002]
The Winchester rondel and acceptance marks on the right side of the butt are clear. [003]
There is also a mark on the bottom of the butt. [004]
To me it looks like it could be the mark of a British inspector who carried out his work in the U.S. – i.e. a crown over a number over A. Is that an asterisk below the A?
I can’t see any asterisks or stars anywhere else.
The cheek-piece looks well-made and fitted. Dunno what kind of wood though. [003, 003A & 005]
The underside on the rear upper hand guard is in good nick and is displaying the Winchester “W” and the number 194 and possibly the number “7”. [006]
There’s also a cheeky little number (maybe 38 or 58) carved in to the wood at the bottom of the bolt handle rest notch. [007]
Any ideas?

METAL-WISE
I’ve picked up the Winchester’s “W” on the front sight block [008], the bayonet support [009], the underside of the bolt handle [010] and (prefixing the serial number) on the receiver and knox both right side. [011]
The serial numbers match as does the number on the upper side of the bolt arm [012].
Don’t suppose any of you guys happen to have a rear leaf sight kicking around with this number on it

I’ve found the first proof mark at the front of the knox [013], the second on the left side of the receiver just behind the knox [014] and also one on the upper surface of the bolt handle [012].
There is what appears to be another proof mark (but it looks like crossed swords, not pennants) on the left side of the knox just next to the .303 mark. The mark incorporates numbers (maybe 2’s or 3’s) [013]. Any ideas?
As well as the acceptance mark (broad arrow) on the butt [003] I’ve found it on the right side of the knox [011] and left side of the receiver [014]
I’ve found “NOT ENGLAND MAKE” on the left side of the knox (but you’ll need to have been to Specsavers to see it!) [015] and left side of the receiver just to the rear of the knox [016]
I’ve found a couple of inspection marks on the knox (crown over numbers or letters over A) [017] but there’s also an irritating little mark to the centre right on the knox that looks like a 5 inside a capital L [011]. Any ideas?
The knox also has nitro proved marks.
It’s a busy little knox
Also on the knox just below the 16 mark (presumably year of manufacture) there’s a mark that maybe the royal cypher [018]
But here’s the thing
To the left of this royal cypher(?) there’s a symbol which is a bit hard to make out. Its quite large and it looks like U.S. Ordnance “Flaming Bomb” Proof Mark. It’s repeated on the receiver left side just next to the “NOT ENGLAND MAKE” mark [019]. According to Stratton this mark would only appear on the P17. There’s also a similar mark on the ball grip of the bolt handle [027]
I dare say there’ll be other marks (esp W) that would reveal themselves on rifle disassembly but that’s for another day (or never)

BOLT/BARREL
I can’t tell if the bolt short lug length is as short as it should be [028] or if the rear barrel face concavity [029] is correct for a Mk I cos I have nothing to compare them with. The rear barrel face looks concave but it doesn’t feel it.

ITS HISTORY
We’ll never know what this rifle has been up to over the years of course but it’s fun to speculate.
My guess is that it was made in ‘16 and saw little or probably no action in WW1
It seems to have ducked getting retrospectively converted to a Mk I*
After the war it was squirreled away in cosmoline never to be seen again …… until ’39 that is.
But even then it kept its head down and managed to dodge the draft staying hidden in the Cosmiline while its brothers were being Weedonised and sent off to do their duty.
Then some time after the war it got its BNP release papers and moved into the non-military market, fell into the hands of Parker Hale who elected to “targetize” it.
Hence the rear sight cheek piece change etc. (I’ve read this was common practice in the 60s and 70s).

I’d really appreciate any thoughts/guidance/opinions you guys could give me.