De-activated!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fred G.]

Me too! Thanks.

[OxfordAndy]

I never really understand why anyone would be stupid enough to pay twice the price for a deactivated rifle compared to a working example.

You can apply for a firearms licence as a collector. As I understand from my Firearms Liaison Officer, the only downside of this is that you have very limited allowances for purchasing and holding ammunition.

[Beerhunter]

Here's one of the things that outlawing active Enfields leads to.

If you mean the UK, live rifles are not "outlawed" here - one just needs a license (Firearms Certificate). Its just that some people can't be arsed to apply for one and take the easy road.

[cassar]

Well here's a strange and unusual one for you, only slightly off track CONVERTED Lee Enfields. converted to the .22 AIR cartidge system, these in the UK are now section 5 (1a) firearms, so you cant sell them on etc even sec 5 dealers cant touch them. probably being sacreligeous even mentioning them hereabouts lol, just thought it might be a small nugget of interest...which is worst? scenario

[enscien]

Whilst we have pretty strict firearms legislation in the UK it is certainly possible to obtain the licence for manually operated rifles as collector's items or for shooting. You have to show 'good reasons' for their acquisition, have secure storage (eg a concealed security cabinet), and an approved place to use them if they are to be fired. Also supply addresses of two referees for your character, have no criminal record, supply four photos etc. If your justification is target shooting the police will check your usage with the rifle club. Then you have to pay a £50 fee for the first 5 years and go through the process again every 5 years. This is worthwhile if you are seriously interested.
However our deactivation standards for bolt action rifles are not as severe as in some countries: the barrel has to be slit, plugged, and secured to the receiver with a welded pin so that it cannot easily be replaced. The bolt lugs are weakened, firing pin tip cut off, and receiver feed ramp cut through. Externally the appearance of the rifle is unchanged, the bolt can be manipulated and the gun field stripped and dry fired. As a non-firearm a de-act can be displayed in your living room, den or whatever without restriction. You would be ill-advised to walk about the street carrying it uncovered however as a police 'armed response vehicle' would probably be summoned!
Many thousands of these de-acs have been sold over the last 24 years since they were put on a proper legal footing and they enable people to collect and enjoy guns without the hassle of licencing, and sell them on easily (and often profitably) when necessary. Most of the Lee-Enfields are not rare: often tired and worn out re-imports from overseas which have been fitted with new furniture and other parts.
It is indeed a shame if pristine, rare, or otherwise desirable guns are ruined by de-activation (as has been the case with too many museums) and one would certainly not advocate that but the alternative could well be total destruction. De-activation has at least allowed many Lee-Enfields to survive in some form and give people the pleasure of their ownership.

[Fred G.]

Wow, I've somewhat taken for granted the way I and my neighbors can just step outside and fire off our rifles, bolt action and semi auto, at anything we chose to on our property. Of course, this is in the wide open country. our nearest neighbor is 3/4 of a mile away. I often hear the guy next door firing some type of a semi auto rifle up on his land. The guy who lives across the road and back about another 3/4 of a mile often shoots clay pigeons and at targets that he's set up down next to the river. I can only imagine how restricted I'd feel to live with such tight firearms laws as are common throughout the rest of the world. In a country where there are about 9 legal and recorded firearms to every ten citizens, it'd be pretty tough to actually confiscate all of the firearms because I personally believe that most of the ones in the hands of private citizens aren't even on any books, records or lists. They're just owned by the families and are handed down from generation to generation. Of course criminals aren't supposed to possess firearms, so they wouldn't turn theirs in anyway. I couldn't tell you right off hand just how many firearms we have in our home. I'd have to stop and jot each one down on paper to keep track. As for ammo, For years I've followed the old tradition of "buy it cheap and stack it deep". I couldn't count the thousands of rounds of surplus 8mm, .303, .22, and 45acp that we have stored away. Too much for one family? Well who has the right to determine that? Don't forget, we don't have a Bill Of Needs. We have a Bill Of Rights. I don't need a car that can go from 0 to 120 mph in a few seconds, but I have the right to have one. I don't need most of what I have, but I have the right to have it and for now, I choose to keep it. Nobody feels threatened by me or any other good citizen. We pretty much mind our own business and keep to ourselves. Always ready to help anyone needing assistance and always keeping a watchful eye and ear out on strangers traveling through...just in case.

[peregrinvs]

Many thousands of these de-acs have been sold over the last 24 years since they were put on a proper legal footing and they enable people to collect and enjoy guns without the hassle of licencing, and sell them on easily (and often profitably) when necessary. Most of the Lee-Enfields are not rare: often tired and worn out re-imports from overseas which have been fitted with new furniture and other parts.

It also allows UK civilians to legally own various types of prohibited weapon such as MG's, SMG's, assault rifles, etc. In the case of LMG's, the deact spec is relatively benign and they can be cocked and partially field stripped. As owning such weapons live is pretty much a no-no - both in the UK and most of the rest of the world - I would argue the UK deact market has saved a lot of stuff from the smelter.

I can also vouch that a lot of the Lee-Enfields that get deactivated in the UK aren't particularly desirable examples. A friend and I were browsing through the deact SMLE's at Beltring last year and an awful lot of them has obviously been partially or fully built from spares - probably fairly recently.

[Aragorn243]

I've read two of these threads with "interest" although somewhat horrified interest. I'm not sure which is worse, that the guns are being deactivated or that people come to accept these deactivated guns as GUNS. These ceased being that the instant they were deactivated. From an investor/collector standpoint I guess it could be looked at as increasing the value of firearms owned by others as the supply shrinks.

I have not seen many British arms finding there way to the US lately. The last batch of imports I took notice of were about 20 years ago. A good advantage of living in the US is that we seem to be the final destination of all the firearms no one else wants anymore. The former Soviet Union states are padding their finances by selling off the Mosin Nagants and now Nagant handguns to importers in the States.

As an example of differing rights/laws/whatever, yesterday I walked into a major firearms dealer and with no license at all walked out an hour later with a fully functioning Nagant 1895 revolver and a box of ammo that cost me nothing because I used credit card points to make the purchase. I filled out one two sided paper and the front of a second, gave them my drivers license and they performed what is called an instant check over the phone with the State Police computer system.

Enfields typically sell in gun shops for between $200-$400 US with most at the lower end. If they've been sporterized, they often go for even less. Prices are going up for them and collector grade will bring much higher premiums. The Mosin Nagant 91/30's can be purchased commonly for $99 and frequently for as little as $79. The price on my Nagant Revolver was $149.

I really don't know what to suggest to those under gun restrictions, probably never be able to get that cat back in the bag at this point and with each succeeding generation growing up in that environment, it's only going to get harder.

[Mk VII]

They are thinking of putting at least some of these deacts back onto licencing again, as well as having made the spec much more severe for SMGs in recent years. As in America, DEWATs have a habit of getting reactivated again (although the old spec was much more severe than America's pre-GCA '68 one)

[Fred G.]

There's really no reason for anyone without a police record to attempt to reactivate a deactivated firearm here. In most states, if a person wants to buy a fully select fire or automatic firearm, they only have to apply with the federal Govt. to do so. The background checks are tighter. There is fingerprinting involved. There is a tax to be paid of $285.00 or something close to that. Then permission is given and the permit it taken to the class 3 dealer, collector or owner and the transfer is made. All the Govt. wants to do is to keep track of who has the firearms or silencers and to make their money off of it too. As far as I can determine, there hasn't ever been a crime committed with any legally registered class 3 firearm in this country.