Bushnell scopes on British snipers' rifles......???

[Roger Payne]

Have any UK/US or for that matter any other owners/followers of UK Accuracy International 7.62mm snipers' or target rifles seen or heard of any being fitted with Bushnell scopes? A friend told me of one he had recently come across second-hand that lacked its scope, but he said he'd heard of paperwork suggesting that this rifle had been fitted with a Bushnell scope at some point in its life. Is this hocus-pocus or does anybody out there in forum land know if this might be true? It's all a bit modern for me really, being post-L42, but I said I'd ask on the forum to see if anyone can corroborate or refute the story.

ATB

Information

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[Simon]

Roger,

I'll have to have trawl through the archives but I have got pics somewhere of an L96 or AW (Don't recall Which) fitted with a Bausch & Lomb Bushnell scope. If memory serves it was something the Royal Marines played with.

Cheers,

Simon,

P.S. Thanks for the mount piccies btw, sorry I've not replied sooner but work has me away a lot lately.

Have any UK/US or for that matter any other owners/followers of UK Accuracy International 7.62mm snipers' or target rifles seen or heard of any being fitted with Bushnell scopes? A friend told me of one he had recently come across second-hand that lacked its scope, but he said he'd heard of paperwork suggesting that this rifle had been fitted with a Bushnell scope at some point in its life. Is this hocus-pocus or does anybody out there in forum land know if this might be true? It's all a bit modern for me really, being post-L42, but I said I'd ask on the forum to see if anyone can corroborate or refute the story.

ATB

[Roger Payne]

Thanks Simon. Any info gratefully received.

[Peter Laidler]

That’s a very astute and timely question there Roger and your answer Simon. Because I’ve slowly been reading up and digesting some of the trials info from old fashioned A-I L96 microfisches that I copied last year. And your observation is in fact correct.

During the proposed change of telescope from the old green PM-6x 42 S&B telescope (we called it the Telescope Straight Sighting L13A1) to a telescope with a greater magnification the cost of a replacement S&B for the L96 was horrendous – even in bulk! Not only that, but the L96 didn’t lend itself to some alternatives because the sight rail on the rifle was non standard. In fact, it is standard…… Standard that is if you call 11mm Weaver dovetail standard when everyone else was thinking Picatinny! But I digress.

So the next telescope just had to have a special bracket designed to take the unknown telescope AND fit the non-standard(?) 11mm rail. It seems that salvation was close because a certain Major at the time suggested that there was a 3-9x magnification variable/adjustable telescope available on the US market that was many, many times cheaper than the S&B 4-12x telescope and would probably fit the bill. It was also suggested that this apparently sealed telescope from the BUSHNELL stable was cheap enough to be an almost throwaway item! There’s a first for everything!

A load of these Bushnells were ordered for the trials and they were well liked and provisionally designated the EX17 (TRIAL) telescope with a 30mm diameter tube. The tube also had extra picatinny rails machined as part of the tube which could be used for a rangefinder and a horizontal level. The variable magnification was well liked and the telescope was remarkably tough although the attrition rate was higher. Reading between the lines, it SEEMS as though this was due to the fact that the Bushnell was a sealed unit whereas the S&B could be repaired locally. The plus side was that at a 1/10th the cost of the S&B, the economics were still sound. The Bushnell also came with what is described as a reversible (?) Weaver type 11mm mounting and an interchangeable Picatinny type rail too and would mount onto the L96 rifle without modification. The drawbacks were that the ‘mildot’ graticle pattern was not what the trials team asked for nor wanted. Additionally the telescope mount would slide on the rail during recoil although this was easy to cure prior to purchase or issue (as done to/with the S&B mount). The trials team also wanted distinct range markings PLUS minute of angle graduations as per the old 6x 42 it was destined to replace. This latter option would seem to be a simple modification.

There, the trials seem to have come to an end except for a short almost indecipherable end of report comment. It would seem that both the UK importer of the telescope and the US manufacturer was unable to supply telescopes to the specification required. It would appear that the actual telescopes were not manufactured by Bushnell but simply bought in from ‘…..elsewhere’

So the answer to the good question is that the Bushnell 3-9x variable was used for the UK Military trials and it would seem that being the case, then would have been offered to Police forces as a cheaper alternative and as the optical sight for the equivalent target and AW rifle sight.

[Peter Laidler]

Further to the above threads, can any of you US forumers enlighten us as to the reliability/quality of the Bushnell scopes. Any ideas of exactly what scope it was/might have been. It's been suggested that it was a 3-9x 40 (illuminated maybe ?) It certainly fits in with Simons comments that some of the AW's were fitted. Thanks

Forgot to say...... The outcome of the trials was that the little green L13A1 telescope was replaced by another S&B, the 4-12X variable together with a specially made bracket that was later adapted to take a picatinny rail on the top for a horizontal level thinggy or a torch or a rangefinder or a kitchen sink or a whatever else you need thinggy...... Even this wasn't that simple as the snipers and sniper DS soon found out! Because unless the telescope rings were pulled down exactly equally then by default, the 'level' picatinny rail atop the ring wouldn't be square across the rifle i.e., slightly canted!

The S&B 4-12x telescope was eventually allocated the nomenclature Telescope, Straight Sighting L17 A1 taken straight from the trials Bushnell EX17

[Roger Payne]

Cheers Peter. I'll pass on your response.

ATB

[Rumpelhardt]

I have two Bushnell scopes. One is a Elite 3200 10x40 1" tube on a Marlin 917V. The other is a Elite 4200 6-24 x50 30mm tube on a Remington 700 Varmint in .308. Both have proved to be very tough and reliable and they both have excellent glass. I don't purposely abuse my firearms but they are by no means babied ether and these scopes have held up fine to everything I've dished out.
Both of these are based on Bausch & Lomb designs as far as I can find so it is probably depending on the time frame safe to say that the scopes you are talking about probably are too.
There are 3-9 power tactical type scopes in the Elite series still. Perhaps descendent's of the scopes being discussed.

[Warren]

I sure hope they were better than the current crop of Bushnell scopes. I've had to re-install the inner ocular lens on several Bushnell scopes after the lens has just walked right out of the cell. It looks like the retaining ring just strips and allows the lens and ring to fall into the scope body or as a minimum they back out about two threads. I suspect it is due to recoil and possibly temperature. There is just a thin shallow threaded ring holding the lens in the cell. Anyone calls with a Bushnell scope that has gone "funny" I just ask them to shake it and let me know if they hear anything. Guess what....almost everyone hears the rattle. Bushnell have been great in replacing the scopes but you get stuck with the postage for something that is not your fault...in my opinion.
The current crop of cheaper (?) Zeiss are getting bad for that also.

[Rumpelhardt]

Warren was the problem scopes named Banner, Trophy or Legend scopes or were they the Elite.
The Banner , Trophy and Legend scopes are Bushnell's low cost Tasco/Barska types. the Elite's are supposed to be their higher quality scopes. Not Swarovski, Schmidt & Bender or Zeiss quality for sure but decent for the price.

[Peter Laidler]

Had lunch yesterday with a couple of the trials tream who remember these telescopes from the 90's (and one of them has one that he presumably 'liberated' at the end of the trial..... Naughty, naughty Geoff!) They didn't have any real reliability problems even though they got a bit of a pasting on the trials. A couple did have illuminated graticles that were a complete waste of rations because the illuminated grat was easily picked up from anywhere within the field of view (the FoV) by anyone out there or a counter sniper with IR or night vision! Who'd have thought of that.......? The only real problem was that the mildot grat pattern was OK at 1 or 200 yards or so but over that and the actual cross part would almost cover the man! As for the range and deflection drums, that was solved for trial purposes by wrapping foil tape around the drum and marking the ACTUAL ranges on. Where there's a will and all that!

The mount was a horizontally upside down/reversable thinggy that had to be screw threaded for a grub screw to prevent it slipping under recoil and upsetting the eye relief. This would tend me to wonder how the inner lenses would break free on others if the scopes we used on our trials were fixed solidly to the rifle body and subject to the full recoil forces imparted..... anyway.

But like Rumpelhardt (thanks for that info....) says. Not Swarovski, S&B or Zeiss but a good all-rounder and probably acceptable if the grat could have been changed to post and wire. That's all I know about them. Any other US shooters/owners have any comments? Not exactly Enfield stuff but maybe there's room on this site for the A-I L96's and AW's.

As a mater of interest, PScott, what are your commercial A-I's fitted with?

Thanks again