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Legacy Member
Originally Posted by
Parashooter
Yes, and the reason is that the radial (circumferential) elongation of approximately 10% exceeds the elastic limit of the brass in that part of the case.
Just my example that all strain of the brass is cumulative.
You can't discount stretching whether it is axial or radial or both combined.
The elastic nature of the LE action and the large clearance between the case head and the chamber tend to concentrate the damage to the case at the pressure ring.
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06-10-2009 01:07 AM
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Legacy Member
I must have missed something here. Regardless of where the case came from or how you made it the debate is about factory made cases failling not a test on how to make or measure home made ones. Take as many new manufactures as there is or you can source, need two of each one for the oring starter method the other without then test to destruction. Then list in order of failure. Simple. See if you can beat second firing no oring rifle inside spec. Load 135gnHP 2700fps using AR2208 [ varget ]
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Advisory Panel
A very good suggestion. Have you got the time and means to do it? I must confess that, myself, I have neither, but it would be a service to all if someone could do it and we got away from a long discussion based on (at least in my case) only basic knowledge of metallurgy.
Patrick
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Banned
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Legacy Member
Originally Posted by
Bindi2
I must have missed something here. Regardless of where the case came from or how you made it the debate is about factory made cases failling not a test on how to make or measure home made ones. Take as many new manufactures as there is or you can source, need two of each one for the oring starter method the other without then test to destruction. Then list in order of failure. Simple. See if you can beat second firing no oring rifle inside spec. Load 135gnHP 2700fps using AR2208 [ varget ]
Bindi,
That is not my debate, that is I disagree with your theory. If you and EH want to alledge that factory brass is bad YOU have to prove it. MY goal is to prove the British design specification that results in so much clearance between the case head and the chamber causes a lot of the problem with case life. Second to that, the springiness of the Lee Enfield action causes a lot of the problem. I have posted the values for the stretch and compression of the action. If you disagree with those numbers get a first year mechanical engineering student to run them for you. It takes longer to measure the action than to do the calcualtions. If you want to ignore these two problem areas and say it is all just a matter of defective brass you need to test your own theories. My experiment is to test the theory that excessive clearance between the case head and the chamber causes reduced case life. That is why I am testing the .444 Marlin and .405 brass. This work has been in process a long time. I bought the .444 cases 20 years ago. I have about 30 of these case to shoot until they fail. I also have a Frankenstein lot made of a lot of odd cases that I will shoot. These cases are 35 to 40 years old. They will give some indication that the brass in the good old days was no better than brass you buy today. There were a lot of case head separation then as now. It is my belief that you will not solve this problem EXCEPT by changing something. There are only 2 brands of domestic .303 brass readily available in the US ---Remington and Winchester. Federal and Hornady is available as factory ammo, as is nny (PPU) and Sellier & Bellot. I have either ammo or brass from all of these as well as the boxer primed HXP military brass. Norma is listed as available. Additional tests on these other brass may be made after my current and most radical tests. (I also have some experience with Remington, Winchester, Frontier and and Federal brass when formed to be used in the 6.5X53R Dutch Mannlicher. The Mannlicher action though ancient is much more rigid than than the Lee-Enfield. It's chamber has about a .002 to .003 clearance with the same brass that is being called defective here. Yet in the Mannlicher it gives no problems.)
My previous experience with case head separations with all brand of brass in 3 different Lee-Enfield rifles makes me inclined to think there are other problems besides just the quality of the brass.
You and other shooters say the O'rings will solve all the problems. All I can say is test the O rings. Shoot 10 or 15 cases until half fail and report the case life.
Bindi if your proof requires shooting a particular load you need to cough up the money and start shooting. I never shoot a bullet that light nor do I shoot Varget. My question to all is if you prove that there is a problem with a particular brand of brass what next? Are you going to recommend a brand of brass that is the optimum in performance? Are you going to petition the various brass manufacturers to change their brass? What are you going to ask them to change? Chemistry, physical properties, temper, dimensions??? Or are you going to say "it's bad please fix it. I don't know how just fix it."
If you change the brass dimensions what do you change them to and insure they fit all Lee-Enfields? I know what to change them to for one Lee-Enfield.
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Banned
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Legacy Member
No matter what you do if the case sticks to the chamber and the action stretches the brass is going to stretch also. Using the case to absorb a load off of the action is dumb when it ruins the brass.
My first year mfg. model 760 still works great. I have never damaged a gun with a reload.
Tell us how you screwed up the 760 Mr Intellectual.
Last edited by ireload2; 06-10-2009 at 05:24 PM.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
ireload2
Tell us how you screwed up the 760 Mr Intellectual.
By fire forming cases with lubrication on them, I screwed the gun up because I listened to someone who said lubing the cases would not hurt anything.
That person was wrong and the books and manuals were correct.
An intellectual (from the adjective meaning "involving thought and reason")
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Legacy Member
Don't really believe your story or you have the slowest memory known to mankind.
Weren't you recently suspended from another forum for being such a sexual intellectual?
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Banned
Ireload2
This is why I asked if you were related to GunnerSam at Gunboards, you are arguing with everyone who disagrees with you and not only just me, and that is here and at Gunboards.
Your ego is writing checks your backside can’t cash and you will be the next one banned.
Now think real hard on this one, what are the actual chances of everyone else being wrong in the forums and only you being right all the time and knowing everything.
In most cases like this the type person that is doing all the arguing is nothing more than a troll looking for attention.
I said before you opened this thread just to start arguments and I was right, so let me give you some advice, if you argue with Parashooter the best you can hope for is a draw or a tie game once in a blue moon and only if Parashooter is having a very bad day and so far you haven’t scored any points with anybody.
If anyone would like to contribute to the Ed Horton “I argued with Parashooter and tied once in 6 years fund” please contact me.