Versailles Treaty "Double Date" GEW 98

[Calif-Steve]

Very small stamp. I really need to post my GEW98 with Spanish stamp. Only one I've ever seen.

[jmoore]

I'll show you what's on my undersides if you'll show me what's on yours, Calif-Steve!







Here's comparative photos of the standard and the "1920 type" rear bands:




WWI and previous








The "upgraded" band and modified retaining spring

[Patrick Chadwick]

The follower looks to be modified to allow it to rise high enough in the bolt raceway to act as a stop even though it has the WWI type bevel in the rear.

The bolt-stop effect at is not a modification, but original standard. The idea was to warn the shooter in the heat of battle that his magazine was empty! The short ramp is to aid feeding. A common modification for the calmer world of target shooting was (and still is) to grind down that short ramp so that it no longer acts as a bolt stop.


Patrick

[jmoore]

The bolt-stop effect at is not a modification, but original standard. The idea was to warn the shooter in the heat of battle that his magazine was empty! The short ramp is to aid feeding. A common modification for the calmer world of target shooting was (and still is) to grind down that short ramp so that it no longer acts as a bolt stop.


Patrick

Hmmm, well then why do my other Gew 98s not have the bolt stop feature? Their followers don't have the additional vertical cut at the rear.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Hmmm, well then why do my other Gew 98s not have the bolt stop feature? Their followers don't have the additional vertical cut at the rear.

Well that's an unfair question! How should I know where your rifles have been? But seriously, there were several follower styles over the decades - I have a few in my 98-family spares box. It looks as if only the original Gew.98 ones were numbered. Later examples are unnumbered, even unmarked.
Attachment 32449
From left to right:
1) Original, Prussian-proofed and numbered Gew.98 follower.
2) Later, anonymous Gew. 98 follower.
3) Follower from Carl Gustaf M1896 Swedish Mauser.
4) Follower with unidentified marking - looks like a kind of 8 within a circle - in fact, very like the Osaka Arsenal mark !!!!

Note various styles of left-hand milling and varying lengths. Once these things land in the spares box it can be difficult to work out where they came from. And any wartime armorer with a workbench full of rifles undergoing repair and overhaul is likely to mix them up and not give a hoot about collectors' ideas of "correctness".

So ask your rifles where they've been!


Patrick

[Claven2]

My understanding is the early Gew98's have no bolt hold open feature, but at some point in production it was added to all Mauser 98's. Modern gunsmiths usually grind away the hold open when building on a 98 action as it's not desirable in a sporting rifle. I have done this many times when building orphan actions into sporting rifles.

[Calif-Steve]

Indeed, it was a combat lesson learned in WWI. Note: everyone thinks the Assualt Rifle (MP44) was a WWII development. Not so. WWI demonstrated the need for (1) semi-automatic fire (2) controllable, accurate fire at close range. Solution was short cartridge and the semi-automatic rifle.

[jmoore]

Further verified that the Gew98s did not have the hold open feature during the Great War: Both WHB Smith and John Walter (The German Rifle) state that the follower wasn't changed until the trial run of Gew 98/17s. Post WWI it was commonly adopted.

Walter's 1979 references can be found on pages 116 and 117.
Olson makes no mention of the hold open feature in Gew 98 rifles that I can find.

BTW: Smith attempts to classify this rifle as a GEW 98a, but I find it nowhere else in print.

[SimsonSuhl]

I agree this is a nice rifle, while these upgraded Gew.98's are rather common in mismatched-problem condition, it isn't too easy to find nice-original and matching ones.

Obviously this is not a Kar.98b, nor is it a transitional Gew.98, collectors often call them Gew.98M, a designation derived from Mark Wieringa article years ago, but the German designation is simply Gew.98 with rear sight to sS patrone or Gew.98 mit s. S. Visiere. Those that that said the original Imperial Gew.98 follower doesn't stop the bolt is correct, one of the easiest ways to identify a German reworked Gew.98, besides the rear sight and blued receiver, is to see if the bolt stops on empty, as it is a feature that is almost always present on interwar Gew.98's.

The "1920" has nothing to do with Versailles, it is simply a property marking done by the Germans in 1920 to differentiate rifles in their possession from rifles illegally held by civilians and paramilitary groups. The marking originates from the Spa conference, when Britain, France and the Belgians demanded the German government do something about the chaos in Germany at the time. I wrote a lengthy article about this a couple years ago for the MRJ, but I did a short version for Gunboards not long ago that outlines this marking and its history. Görtz, Jan Still and many P08 (Luger) collectors have accurately identified this marking many years ago and it is properly described in many books:

The 1920 Property Mark - Disarming of the People Act

Regarding the rifle, the barrel you show, if it has no other markings on the underside then it is a very early re-barrel. The fact that the fireproof is on the underside, rather than next to the serial is a Imperial era placement pattern, that and the fact it has no barrel code, and the suffix on the barrel is not applied speaks to this being a very early re-barrel by a depot. The stock is an Imperial ordnance spare due to lacking a cypher and the Imperial acceptance. Probably just on hand at the depot when it made its way through.

The rear sight sleeve is very early also, probably original to the first rework after the war, when they were upgraded to be dual compliant for S & sS patrone. Later the base was upgraded again with a Simson rear sight base as waffenamt e/81 is a very late inspector for Simson. They didn’t do the upgrade but rather supplied the [part to the depots that did the upgrade.

Anyway, a very nice rifle from the looks of it, when Bruce & Mike’s new book comes out in a couple months, your rifle will appreciate in value as interwar rifles in this condition are vastly underappreciated at the moment.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Thanks for the link to an excellent post on Gunboards!