The Cypriot "Jungle Carbine" Query

[villiers]

But are you really certain that they were NOT made in a Cyprus jungle?

[yellowsled]

Im kinda new here, but I am picking one of these up tomorrow in trade so research led me here. After reading some info on numerous boards and seeing deactivated ones for sale in the UK, I fully believe these conversions were not done here in the US. With that being said, given the original sale price of these rifles I just don't see the benefit of some armorers doing this. Given the cost of the parts and labor, would it not just be beneficial to put them together in their original configuration for more profit?

I talked to a buddy of mine who collects high quality C&R stuff, and he loves his enfields and although he didn't know much about this varient, he believes it to be authentic.

I personally believe these are authentic.
Can I prove it, or will I be ever able to prove it.. Nope With that said, I believe there is more circumstantial evidence to say they are real than a "made up" rifles.

I found this online:
SURPLUS SURPRISES
Previously unknown military surplus guns are showing up in the U.S., making the collectors drool and ponder.
(excerpt from GI94, "Surplus Surprises" article, by Charles Karwan)

* Cyprus Police No.5 Conversion

A good many of the surplus surprises have been well-known military models converted into interesting previously unknown variations or even new models. One of the more intriguing is a variation of the familiar British No.5 "Jungle Carbine".

On the surface, these rifles look pretty much like a conventional No.5. However, close inspection reveals that they are actually No.4 rifles converted into the No.5 carbine configuration. On the left side of the receiver they are pantograph-engraved NO 5 CONV-CYP/NIC.

The barrel was shortened to carbine length and fitted with a No.5 flash-hider assembly. The forend and rear handguard were shortened to approximate No.5 specifications, and the buttstock was fitted with a No.5 buttpad/sling loop assembly. In the process, the cut for the No.4 sling swivel base has been plugged with a piece of wood. The net result is a Jungle Carbine with a heavier barrel and without the lightening cuts in the action.


No one seems to know the exact story behind these carbines. Some research has turned up pictures of Cyprus police carrying No.5 carbines. It was a logical choice due to the paramilitary-type operations they have had to conduct, and the fact that there has been dtrong British Commonwealth influence there for decades, including the U.N. peace-keeping force located there since 1964.

Considering this and the markings on these guns, I am relatively certain that these No.5-type carbines were made by or for the Nicosia police on Cyprus. They probably tried to acquire additional No.5 carbines some time after gaining independence and found that none were available. Since parts to do conversions of readily available No.4 rifles were available, that route was taken. Regardless of the reason behind these conversions, they are an interesting and previously unknown field variation.

Taken from:
http://www.public.asu.edu/~roblewis/...IID2a11a5.html

[XL39E1]

Has anybody noticed that the gunboards Rifle is a 1944 Maltby but also a No4Mk1*? Do they exist?

[spinecracker]

Yes, Maltby No.4 Mk.1*s exist, but it was apparently a marking error - the rifles are No.4 Mk.1s with the separate bolt release catch, not the slot as seen on Long Branch and Savage No.4 Mk.1*s.

[jrhead75]

Has anybody noticed that the gunboards Rifle is a 1944 Maltby but also a No4Mk1*? Do they exist?

There was apparently a run of mismarked Maltbys in 1944. They're actually Mk1s but are marked Mk1*. From the s/n's I've seen posted, there could be quite a few (50k-ish?) about.

[XL39E1]

But I cannot see a release catch were it should be, or come to that a Long Branch type Release either! Confused!!

[yellowsled]

What do you guys make of this one? Its a 1943 Long branch with a 1946 Barrel.

Attachment 31178Attachment 31179Attachment 31180Attachment 31181Attachment 31182

[Lee Enfield]

Yes, Maltby No.4 Mk.1*s exist, but it was apparently a marking error - the rifles are No.4 Mk.1s with the separate bolt release catch, not the slot as seen on Long Branch and Savage No.4 Mk.1*s.

The marking I'm interested in is the ' No4 MkI " ' marking which I've observed on @10-12 Brit No4MkI rifles.

Anyone have an explanation for the ' " ' marking?

[Peter Laidler]

Let me get this right Yellowsled........ I 'm slightly confused in your slightly ambiguous assertion a few threads up. And I suspect that a few others are too. Are you seriously suggesting that the 'Cypriot' No4/5 rifle hybrids are an official military or Police conversion?

[yellowsled]

I dont drink the Kool-aid of thinking that just because I cant explain it I believe it is a fake. Let me explain....

A perfect example is the Mosin m1891/59. (Link here for more on the M1891/59) No one knows who build these guns, or the reason but they are accepted as a legitamate varient of the weapon. I believe it is such for this NIC/CYP weapon.

The big question I ask myself, why would someone do this to these weapons? I am not a Enfield expert, but I would think a 1943 Long Branch unmolested would be more desirable than a hack bubba job, no? I have to use some common sense to believe these are a legit variant that was made for some reason. Maybe they weren't used in Greece, but there is definitely something going on here.

Do I not have one shred of proof these are legit, but I also don't have any proof that the m1891/59 is legit either.

-Evan