Royal engineers "sappers" tunnel rifle

[ArtioZen]

"Beneath Hill 60" portrays Oliver Woodward and his company of Australian Tunnelers - I do not know how accurate the story or props are compared to the contemporary accounts and historian assessments, but the movie did feature a sawn off Enfield - and it was used in a tunnel defense seen (unrealistically). The device is also featured in the "Internet movie Firearms Database" that lists firearms used in popular movies. The movie seems researched, but we are dealing with "the arts" - so good for them! Movie props do pop up in collectors markets (no matter how fanciful) and anybody can chop up their own rifle to be just like the movie (reality mimicking art?). Watch the movie anyway! My choice in the cramped half light would be the punch dagger that I use to pick the dirt from under my nails...and whatever I was digging with...cos its already designed to swing n cleave down there... In the half-light (at best) and covered in whatever your digging through (even moving through) makes identification a H2H range thing anyway - leave a lamp behind you and work in the dark

[Gil Boyd]

I am sure when it all comes out, it was a one off individual who happened to pick up an SMLE that had been damaged beyond economical repair, perhaps at the barrel end and also the butt, and rounded it up and shortened it himself thinking it would be a good idea............not seen the film but I am sure the myth reached the ears of an advisor, or is this where the myth began......Hollywood 2012??

[Roger Payne]

Gil, Major Stokes wrote his War Diary at the time, so it wasn't a fanciful recent film director's whimsy, but I agree that they were almost certainly done as one-offs by the men there at the time - probably because rifles were relatively available & they thought it a 'good idea'. Certainly Stokes' interest was aroused sufficiently by the one he saw to make a rough sketch of it & mention it in the war diary.

ATB.

[Roger Payne]

P.S. Like most Aussie historical films 'Beneath Hill 60' is, in my opinion, one of the best films made in recent years on the subject of the fighting on the Western Front. Like in all films intended for public consumption there is a little artistic license, but from my limited knowledge of the fighting in the First World War in France & Flanders, it is amongst the best. No doubt produced on a shoestring budget compared to the Hollywood equivalent, with relatively unknown actors, I think they have surpassed the big budget movies, with the gritty atmosphere of realism. If it had been made on a huge budget featuring top Hollywood actors no doubt they'd have spent half the film rolling about in the trenches fighting each other & calling each other mo-fo's.

If you've not seen it - get hold of a copy, IMHO it's well worth a view........& if you have a surround sound system, turn it right up for the blowing of the Messines mines!!!

ATB

[Gil Boyd]

Doug,
There you are another one for the film library on the site when available so we can all watch it.
Agreed Roger there is an element of truth in the myth but as I say it probably was a one off and gucci enough for other Tommies to spread the tale............not that I have any previous for that in my time

[Peter Laidler]

It just seems incredible to the point of, well, there are no words to express it, that if a mere mortals like me and others within this thread should point out the absolute absurdity of such a notion of shooting a cut down absolutely pointless deafening weapon down and deep within a mine shaft, a presumably well educated RE Major would have thought along the same lines too. That he gave this more than a passing thought says more about him than saying nothing! Nowadays, you'd take the Officer aside and say '..... If I might just say so quietly sir, that's a load of bolloc.........., er......, not a well thought out idea! Just my opinion of course

My in-box hasn't been brimming with eager takers yet for my 'proof of the pudding' test..............

Until the early 80's we used to destroy old rifles by chopping them like that on the bandsaw or with the hot-axe

[Roger Payne]

Attachment 53987



This was intentionally cut down & I thought it an intiating device for a trench mortar, save for the odd 'handle' - However, I've now looked at Barry Temple's useful little book & there is in fact a line drawing of exactly one of these on the front cover! It is indeed for firing a 'Plum Pudding' trench mortar. It was found only last year by one of my neighbours near High Wood. He kindly allowed me to take some photo's of it. Unfortunately the bolt handle has broken off at some point.

ATB.

P.S. This is the item I mentioned to Rob D in an earlier posting in this thread.

[Gil Boyd]

Well................I was told this afternoon by one of the IWM experts that they used a similar cut down rifle in the Boer War to initiate a mortar.........you could have knocked me down with a feather, but apparently it is of the same Enfield family. The proof will be in photographic evidence if ever I am to swallow this pudding

Had to come back before I got another rollocking about the spelling of Boer which I had as Boar apologies to our SAF

[Peter Laidler]

No need to wait Gil................ We had an identical exhibit attached to the plumb pudding mortar at Warminster. Others similar were for initiating the grenade/bomb throwers mounted on tank turrets. Wisely, and unlike Mayor whats'isname, the tankies used these mounted outside the turrets

[Lee Enfield]

Leave the gun, Take the cannolies

one of my favorite lines from a movie...

Plum Pudding:
2-inch Medium Mortar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia