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Legacy Member
Mannlicher M1888 bullet etc.
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09-12-2015 01:22 PM
# ADS
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Legacy Member
Here is a copy of the 8x50r data for smokeless powder I have for the original 1888/90 rifles (sorry about the crappy quality of the image). I have not used it (loading 8x50r is one of my next projects) but I will be soon.
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Legacy Member
Thank 'ee kindly young sir, I shall have to think about how far back I should reduce the size of load. I am pretty sure these are for a good M1895 rotating head bolt despite the note at the bottom. 35 grains seems not unreasonable at first thinking. IMR 3031 is a match to Tu3000 I am told.
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Legacy Member
Well it says 45grns of IMR 3031 for a 227grn bullet, and that it is for a 88 action. I honestly believe most the data which is for the later M90/95 action would also be acceptable for the 1888 action simply because they didn't manufacture a special type of ammo just for the earlier actions (and later on they made the higher pressure 8x56r for the M90/95 action to get its full potential). If it was me, I would try a 40grns of IMR 3031 and work up.
I have used IMR 3031 for .303 British with great results. It is a faster burning powder which usually gets used in stuff like .30-40 Krags (actually where I got my .303 recipe), and .30-30 lever actions. My load for .303 British is 32grns of IMR 3031 under a 150grn bullet, which brings me right on at 100m, so that gives a idea where it is at with the lighter and smaller bullet, and smaller case capacity.
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Advisory Panel
Tips for an initial BPCR loading
I cannot help with advice on smokeless loading, as I only shoot BP rifles with BP. But the following may help you to achieve more success with black powder. At least it should help you get started with usable results.
1) Establish the maximum possible overall length for the specific bullet in your rifle.
2) If possible, seat the bullet so that it is about 1mm off the lands. This is because the throat quickly becomes crudded up with BP residues, and seating the bullet too far out will lead to a "force fit" after a few rounds.
3) Ideally, the powder charge should be up to the start of the neck when it is well shaken down, and the bullet seating should permit the inclusion of a waxed wad between the powder and the bullet.
BP bullets MUST be lubricated with a wax/grease lubricant, to keep the fouling soft.
For this reason, do NOT use mineral-oil greases.
If lubrication is adequate, after the first fouling shot, the POI should not drop significantly for at least 15 shots (i.e. enough for a typical competition round). If the POI drops lower and lower, then lubrication is inadequate and the bore is caking up hard.
4) Do not use more than about 1/16" compression with Swiss powder, if any. Numerous reports indicate that compression leads to uncertain performance variations.
5) The Lee 329-205 mold appears to be intended for a bullet with a gas check. Do NOT use gas checks with BP bullets, as they hinder the obturation of the base of the bullet that is required for a good fit of the bullet in the bore.
6) For the same reason, for a start use tin-lead bullets with no more than about 5% tin and do not expect more than BP velocities. BH no more than about 10. Maybe 15. No harder. Since, after the first shot, all BP bullets are "crud-riding", leading is not a problem if you keep to BP velocities. And the harder the bullets, the closer they have to be to groove diameter. If you want muzzle velocities above, say, 450 meters/sec, then I recommend copper-plated (not jacketed!) bullets. It is a trade-off - the faster you go, the harder the bullet required and the closer the fit. Some experimentation is unavoidable.
7) With BP, my experience is that the smaller the grains the harder the residue. And if lubrication is inadequate, subsequent shots bake the crud harder and harder and the grooves are filled up, so that in the end you are effectively shooting a smooth-bore rifle with correspondingly poor grouping. Swiss 3f is appropriate for a revolver. It is too fine for a rifle-length barrel. Use Swiss 2f.
8) If the basic recipe works satisfactorily, then you can experiment with harder bullets etc. So take the above as a starting point.
Give it a try, and good luck!
Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 09-15-2015 at 12:27 PM.
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