Restoration of leather slings

[csmjms]

Does anyone have a recommendation on leather restoration and treatment? Old leather military slings and ammo boxes(McKeever) are a challange to clean and keep from deteriorating. There are several do's and don'ts that I have read.

Information

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[saddler]

AVOID neatsfoot oil

Use a HIDE FOOD or a good LEATHER DRESSING

Fiebings in the USA make a few good products - their Aussie Leather Conditioner is quite good to use.
Here in the UK I use a product called Ko-Cho-Line IF you can TRY to find a USA stockist of it, it's made by Carr & Day & Martin.

[gew8805]

AVOID neatsfoot oil Use a HIDE FOOD or a good LEATHER DRESSING

Personally, I was going to recommend PURE neatsfoot oil, but that has been argued to death here and elsewhere. Suffice it to say, whatever you use, apply lightly, nothing worse than drowning the leather. Apply after a careful washing with good quality saddle soap (no silicone) and, when almost but not quite dry, apply the neatsfoot oil with your fingers, rubbing in well.

And be sure to avoid anything with petroleum products as part of the ingredients. Here in the USA ingredients are shown on the container so you can tell what you are using. No offense to saddler, many hide foods and leather dressings available here in the US contain petroleum products or mineral oils and will, after a long period, destroy the leather. They are good for user grade items but should not be used on collectible items that you want to last indefinitely.

Fiebings in the USA make a few good products - their Aussie Leather Conditioner is quite good to use.
Here in the UK I use a product called Ko-Cho-Line IF you can TRY to find a USA stockist of it, it's made by Carr & Day & Martin.

Saddler, I am glad you mentioned Ko-Cho-Line, I have used it on some of the items I make for reenactors and do find that it seems to work well. The can does not show any information about what the ingredients are. Do you have any idea what it's made of? I bought it from our Mennonite harness maker (my mentor in leather work) about 15 years ago but he never restocked. I may be interested in more for the reproduction items I make.

[saddler]

I used to buy Ko-Cho-Line by the case but my initial supplier was then forced to stop sellign it by the makers = so we ALL have to buy direct from the makers now = price rise as a result!!

I can request a copy of the COSHH sheet (a bit like a Hazard Data sheet) for Ko-Cho-Line for you if you like. AFAIK it has no petroleum in it.

I was sworn onto the stuff by the saddler that trained me, and the old chap that had trained him told him to use THAT and nothing else - or else!!
Have had a LOT of running arguments with non-leatherworkers about Neatsfoot over the years on other forums - so I am known to have a "red mist" moment as soon as I see it mentioned.

Even the sales rep for the folk that make Ko-Cho-Line told me that he thinks Neatsfoot is junk & they only make it as customers keep asking for it = a profit is a profit I suppose!

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 PM ----------

[Patrick Chadwick]

Can lanolin be used on leather? Germans have never heard of "neat feet" - but I found a tin of (claimed) pure lanolin at a boot sale.

[saddler]

Can lanolin be used on leather? Germans have never heard of "neat feet" - but I found a tin of (claimed) pure lanolin at a boot sale.

SOME of the leather dressings I have contain Lanolin but they are not purely Lanolin

I have a recipe from one of my customers that is a mix of pure beeswax, goose fat & lanolin - but I'd need his permission before broadcasting the exact ratio

I also have quite a collection of wierd & wonderful US Army training manuals for saddlers.
One of these is a local cavalry manual from 1918: it's stuffed full of recipes for various leather dressings, etc. that were designed to be made on-site from locally procured raw materials.
I know where this book is (unlike over 50% of my other books as we recently moved house & most of my books are still in boxes) so IF you like I am happy to see which specific recipes I can find that have the heaviest concentration of Lanolin & scan them for upload here or on my website , whatever suits you best...

As has been said many times, the tanning process is ONLY a way to slow down the natural decay of the animal hide.
If the leather becomes too dry it WILL decay.
The best hide foods & leather dressings are the ones that replicate as near as is possible the fats/oils etc. that would be present in a healthy hide prior to tanning.

Hope this helps - I'll dig out the 1918 manual tomorrow

Jon

p.s. Just noticed you are in Germany.
I have a catalogue from a German saddlery supply company - Kappey.de - I'll see what products they have in stock that may be suitable

[Patrick Chadwick]

The best hide foods & leather dressings are the ones that replicate as near as is possible the fats/oils etc. that would be present in a healthy hide prior to tanning.

So does that mean that sweaty fingers will actually help to preserve leather?

Thanks for the tips. My memory was at fault (after all, we only moved 10 years ago - some things a still buried in the cellar). I dug out the tin, and it says "Flexalan lanolised leather dressing". So it is not pure, and could have all sorts of mystery ingredients. Has anyone else used this product?


Patrick

[saddler]

So does that mean that sweaty fingers will actually help to preserve leather?

Thanks for the tips. My memory was at fault (after all, we only moved 10 years ago - some things a still buried in the cellar). I dug out the tin, and it says "Flexalan lanolised leather dressing". So it is not pure, and could have all sorts of mystery ingredients. Has anyone else used this product?


Patrick

Apart from the salt from sweat not doing the leather too much good!
I have a couple of the Flexolan? leather dressings....but cannot remember how good/bad it was/is

Still see it for sale - but when has that ever been an indication of quality

[gew8805]

I used to buy Ko-Cho-Line by the case but my initial supplier was then forced to stop sellign it by the makers = so we ALL have to buy direct from the makers now = price rise as a result!!

I can request a copy of the COSHH sheet (a bit like a Hazard Data sheet) for Ko-Cho-Line for you if you like. AFAIK it has no petroleum in it.

I was sworn onto the stuff by the saddler that trained me, and the old chap that had trained him told him to use THAT and nothing else - or else!!
Have had a LOT of running arguments with non-leatherworkers about Neatsfoot over the years on other forums - so I am known to have a "red mist" moment as soon as I see it mentioned.

Even the sales rep for the folk that make Ko-Cho-Line told me that he thinks Neatsfoot is junk & they only make it as customers keep asking for it = a profit is a profit I suppose!

Saddler an excellent and well stated reply. I understand your dislike of neatsfoot oil; you were taught by people with life-long experience in the industry and their word is to be believed, it is based on experience. I do, however, feel the same way. The gentleman that taught me has also been a leather professional for over 50 years and his experience as a saddle maker and harness maker is legendary in his community. The local old-order Mennonites use horse drawn equipment every day, both for travel and for farm work and he is the primary source for repair and manufacturing work and his experience with neatsfoot oil, while it doesn't mirror your teachers', is just as valid, I am sure you will agree. Cleaning and oiling is the key to maintaining leather equipment and when it is in everyday use it is especially essential. We can agree to disagree. Just use as pure a product as you can get and use as little as possible, and, heavens for the sake of, do not let the leather dry out!

The COSHH sheet for the Ko-Cho-Line product would be very interesting to see. Please let me know if you can get it. I managed to find some information last night that was not out there when I searched several years ago but it was not definite, it was posted on a web discussion forum composed of equestrian people, not by the company. That being said, it did sound interesting and backed up what you said as well as my limited experience with the product. It was said there that it is made of vegetable oils and most seemed to "feel" that it does not contain petroleum products. It also, they say, inhibits rust on iron hardware and that would be great if confirmed. I avoid iron whenever possible due to the problems of iron's reaction to leather and the subsequent damage to the leather. However, if the original item I am reproducing had iron hardware, there is no way around it.

[gew8805]

So does that mean that sweaty fingers will actually help to preserve leather?
.............................................
Patrick

Patrick, as I am sure Saddler will tell you, the salt is the killer, water is actually good for leather and will not harm it as long as the leather dries slowly......

How sweaty are your fingers?