Trigger Job ? ? ?

[Jocko]

Can somebody point me in the right direction for getting some trigger work done on my 1903, I'm in upstate NY. Shot a vintage match this weekend and scored pretty well, 98 prone slow - 96 prone rapid - then a crappy 86 standing slow.

Trigger pull is just to much, will pick up 5.25 lbs with my trigger weight set.
Would like to get it down to the 3.5 lbs that CMP allows.

Thanks a bunch

Information

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[Parashooter]

If you want it done right, learn how to do it yourself. It's not difficult if you have the small, hard abrasive stones that let you proceed in small, smooth increments.



Polishing the rear face of the sear, always in line with its direction of travel, with a very fine, flat stone will smooth and lighten both pulls if the sear is not already super-smooth. Finally, a light coat of graphite or moly grease on humps and sear face can make the trigger pull significantly slicker than it would be dry or oiled.

[Chuckindenver]

try a lighter main spring, and trigger rebound spring.
before you mess with the trigger, sear, or cam.

[polska]

Jocko I have asked this question many times and have never received a responce except do it yourself or change springs.I guess the art has died as no one does it anymore.Remember this is a collectors forum and very few members every seriously shoot 03's they just collect and plink with them.
After I wasted quite a few dollars trying to do it myself by ruining triggers I started swapping triggers until I found one that was worth anything.This I use for target practice and matches.
Remember this is a collectors forum and most of them do not seriously shoot but are more informal plinkers and if the trigger isn't horrible it's good enough for them.Not that there is anything wrong with that but they don't understand the type of trigger a good tight position can be appreciated in.
Good luck in your quest.

[Parashooter]

Remember this is a collectors forum and most of them do not seriously shoot but are more informal plinkers and if the trigger isn't horrible it's good enough for them.Not that there is anything wrong with that but they don't understand the type of trigger a good tight position can be appreciated in.
Good luck in your quest.

I suspect there are plenty of serious shooters here who know how to create and use a good M1903 trigger pull. Someone who can't manage a simple trigger job should probably take up golf or some other hobby that doesn't require understanding a mechanical device more complex than a club. It takes courage and good insurance to undertake trigger work for money, since a guy who can't understand how a trigger works is sometimes the same type who'll call a lawyer after a smooth, light trigger does its job when he "forgot" to keep the muzzle pointed somewhere safe.

[Chuckindenver]

hmmmm, i understand it just fine, i bet i have the mechanics of a 1903 down better then most gunsmiths on the market today.
that being said, i cant via the net, show someone how to clean up the contact area of a trigger, also the liability of {telling} someone to change or modify the fire control of ANY firearm. is a grey area at best.
if one were to tell someone to stone down the contact points of a sear and trigger, then they take too much off and shoot themselvs or another shooter, that would make you responsible.
if the rifle was sent to me,i would have no problem smoothing the trigger, also making the bolt work easier..
without grinding or doing more then cleaning to contact points, changing the springs, and light stone work..nothing more.
like i always say...if it aint broke, dont fix it.

[Parashooter]

If teaching someone about trigger work is a sin, how did you learn? And who will do it when you retire?

I admire the courage of anyone who works on triggers professionally, and hope you all have plenty of insurance - not because you do poor work but because your good work is subject to misuse by idiots and subsequent litigation by idiots' lawyers.

If you'll read my first post on this topic, you'll see it's about "light stone work" - not "grinding" - and it doesn't tell anyone to "stone down the contact points" but rather describes how the trigger humps relate to the pull's stages.

[polska]

parashooter I did not disrespect you, please do not disrespect me.
The original post asked where he could get some trigger work done?Ihave asked the same and got the same responces.Seems no one does them.Don't give me that liability stuff because there are adds for trigger work on M1's,M14's,Rem700's,1911's and the list goes on.
I don't try to bed my rifles or rebarrel them or install new sights or anything else. I am not mechanical inclined and leave such jobs to people who are.
Many a gun has been ruined by basement gunsmiths because of so called easy jobs.I believe we call them Bubba's.I believe one is better to pay his money and have it done correctly,it usually turns out to be the most inexpensive way.

[Jim Tarleton]

I bought a set of stones from Brownells for trigger stoning. They work very well but are not cheap, but they are worth every penny. It can be done with a square file wrapped in 400 grit sandpaper. Just remember to maintain all square edges (VERY IMPORTANT), and don't reduce sear engagement (don't reduce the height of the trigger sear or cocking piece sear unless you KNOW what you are doing). I also cut (grind) off 1/2 coil on the trigger spring (have cut off a complete coil, but that felt excessive to me). Don't forget to polish the underside of the receiver where the "humps" cam on the receiver. Reducing the humps if fine, if you have ruined enough triggers to know what you are doing.

I don't fool with the firing pin spring as reducing its coil strength increases lock time, and doesn't really reduce trigger pull much IF you do the trigger work correctly. The main springs in my two bolts (below) seem to be stronger than normal rather than lighter.

I have in my collection two rifles that were used by Marines for target practice or match shooting. They have very fine triggers, and I have taken them apart to carefully examine what was done to make them so precise. The first stage is almost unnoticeable, with a short second stage,and a trigger pull of 3 lbs to 3 1/2 lbs. Comparable work was performed on the cocking piece sears. The trigger pulls are noticible light and very smooth. The bolts are highly polished. The sear surfaces look like little mirrors. All cams and cam surfaces are also polished, and the "humps" have been altered significantly (we are talking about relatively minor reductions here, and the reduction of one is related to the other).

I changed out the bolt on one of these rifles (to make it "correct"), and the trigger pull changed a bunch. Back into the rifle went the original non-matching bolt. I cannot improve these triggers, and the workmanship is very precise and excellent.

Reducing sear engagement will greatly improve trigger pulls and crispness, but you MUST know what you are doing in this area, as you can make your rifle very dangerous to be around if you go too far, and in my opinion, most people do. If you want to venture into this area, it is the cocking piece sear you reduce, and it is a very minor reduction. You must maintain at minimum, 1/8" of sear engagement, and that is with the bolt in its highest position. This is measured by blackening both sears with a magic marker, and dry firing the rifle a few times. If you have a sloppy bolt to receiver fit, the bolt may be able to "cam over" the trigger sear and fire when you close the bolt. Been there and done that. If that happens, immediately throw the cocking piece into the nearest lake.

Buy an extra trigger and cocking piece before you start. Most likely you will need one or both.

And last, again, keep all edges absolutely square and sear surfaces completely flat. I use a plastic draftman's triangle to make sure I am stoning square with all surfaces.

Good luck and proceed slowly. Stoning isn't crotchrocket science.

Jim

[Jim Tarleton]

I forgot to add that if you want to go the whole nine yards (anyone know the origin of that expression?), you can coat all polished cam and sear surfaces with Gun Juice and put them in a 250F oven for twenty minutes. Be prepared for a drastic change, and you might not like it.

I Gun Juice my barrels for longevity, and Gun Juice will raise POI at 100 yards significantly. I had to change out the front sight for a taller one on a 38-55 Marlin after Gun Juicing the barrel. The POI at 100 yards went up 12 ". Typical change in POI after Gun Juicing is on the order of 3" to 6" rise, depending on rifle and caliber. I have personally detected no increase in accuracy with Gun Juice. Others say differently.

Jim