selection of a n°4 to create a n°4 "sniper"

[Lou Cypher]

I've the opportunity to acquire a n°4 that is almost "out of the box". She is coded M47C from 1944.
If I'm right, some of them where selected to be equipped with a n°32.
If the one I'm expecting to buy has not been selected during the II world war, does it means that she didn't meet the requirements at that time? or maybe, she was not tested to be transform as a n°4T?
I understand that during the war, they didn't want to lose time to accurate a rifle, and they selected the best of them directly from the factory.
But nowadays, if we work on a rifle a bit, can we meet the same requirements that were expected during this period and then have a correct n°4 "sniper"?

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[jmoore]

There's no way I'd convert an "almost 'out of the box'" 1944 BSA. It's rarer than a matching No.4 Mk.I (T)! (At least in my travels.) Closest I've come in British WWII production is a Fazackerly. If it's unmolested after all these years, leave it be.

Didn't we just go through this discussion?

[vintage hunter]

I may be a bit off base on this but it's my understanding that the rifles that shot a bit better that the rest during testing at the factory were set aside for possible conversion and were marked with the TR on the left side of the butt socket. They were again test fired at H&H and those that met the requirements there were then converted the sniper configuration. Not all with the TR marking went on to become No.4T's, although I've yet to see one it's possible to run across a standard No.4 with the TR marking. Just because the rifle your looking to buy is most new does'nt mean it will shoot any better than one several thousand rounds down the tube. I also agree with JM, if it's made it this long in that condition theres no use in ruining it now by making a repro T out of it.

[Lou Cypher]

It's rarer than a matching No.4 Mk.I (T)!
Really?! I'm surprised.
I believed it was a common Lee Enfield n°4 mkI .
Just because the rifle your looking to buy is most new does'nt mean it will shoot any better than one several thousand rounds down the tube.
I agree, I will know if it shoots as well as she is nice only the day I will buy it..but at that time she is really nice.

[jmoore]

It's not unheard of to find decent "all Savage", Post-WWII Fazackerlys and Long Branch rifles, but after all these years, I have yet to lay hands on a "for sure" as manufactured (including sub-contracted parts) BSA or Maltby. It's mostly due to the fact that these rifles were maintained for years afterwards as the primary service rifle.

[enfield303t]

Lou Cypher, I joined this site as it is known to have members that are experts in military weapons and the Lee Enfield forums amongst others has some of the worlds foremost.

If people here are advising you to do or not do something it is worth giving serious consideraton.

If you are looking to build what I call a "fake" No4 T go ahead, however to use the rifle you mention is a waste of a great BSA and that would be a shame.

Do what you must however to "violate" such a rare rifle...... well may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your arm pits.

Nothing personal.

[mtbikerwvu]

If I was to want to build a fake/reproduction custom, I would first look at the tons of sporterized Enfields that line the pawn shop walls. That is where my project would start but by the time you rebuild it accurately what do you have? I have a shop here locally that has a real No.4T without the scope for $875.00. I would say you could buy that rifle as cheaply as making your reproduction and then buy the proper scope and you will have the real deal. With that said, it is your money and it is your gun, do what makes you happy and have fun doing it. Just be prepared to suffer the wrath of the purists who wish to preserve history. A 2 door 57 Chevy convertible is cool and to build one from a sedan frame with an aftermarket body is cool too but it is never really a 57 2 door convertible and if that fact is OK with you then I say go for it.

[RobD]

For the best of both worlds, I would suggest buy a no-gunsmithing scope mount e.g. from Brian Dick and a vintage Weaver scope (which looks a bit like the N32 scope).
I did that, got bored with it, and now have it back to iron sights with no harm done.

[Lou Cypher]

Wouah! I didn't want to shock you guys. I have to explain a bit more my point of view.
I'm a purist, I already have a M47c in a mint condition. I'm participating to a service rifle competition for which you must have a rifle that fit externally with the infantry model with the ironsight. My first n°4 is like she was when the tommy came in France to fight for freedom. This rifle remains untouched, even the trigger is like it was 70 years ago (heavy for target shooting). The only variable on which I'm producing the most of my effort, is the cartridge, sorry I don't shoot any more the MKVII cordite loaded. And this rifle shoots very well.
But now, I want to shoot the "modified service rifle" category. So either I fit a target sight, like a parker hale sight or, a scope. The problem is that I felt in love of the n°4(T), what a shape! But I don't get the money to buy one. So the solution I have, is to built a n°4 scope mounted. doing this, I must keep in mind that every thing on the rifle must be as it was on the original model. That means for me, I have to equip this rifle with a Mr Payne's bracket, a repro or original n°32 scope (it will be an original).
So, even if for some of you, it's a crime to do this, just understand that my goal is not to do violate this rifle, of course she will never get the TR and the T, but she will be equipped in the state-of-the-art.
Finding a M47c around here is not so rare, either it comes from the old resistants that give or sell them, or many of them were" forgotten" in many farms.
I respect your advise. Let's see what the future will be in France for the gun's owner..

[jmoore]

Finding a M47c around here is not so rare, either it comes from the old resistants that give or sell them, or many of them were" forgotten" in many farms.

Y'all (encompassing several countries) may have one of the last remaining small stashes of "as issued in WWII" rifles on the planet, due to the battles fought on your land. Don't think they're so common, just because you been seeing them all your life. Anymore, to the rest of us, they're rare reminders of an important time.

A good detailed photo study of these relics would be quite valuable!