No32 repro's. A few thoughts

[Peter Laidler]

Here’s just a few thoughts on the proposal somewhere in the world to remanufacture No32 tele sights. A similar event occurred in England during the 70’s when clones of the monster MGB GT V8 (remember the big Buick/Rover V8 engine?) ceased production after 2591 were produced. Then several thousand more were produced by all manner of people, using ‘parts’ and standard MGBGT’s. The fact is that there is only a finite amount of the REAL McCoy. I wonder just what pattern he’ll reproduce. The rarest and most expensive must be the Mk2/1 that uses the most expensive options of all the scopes. But, the cheapest will be the Mk3. And will it be an exact replica. Has anyone any experience of these repros in the past. Are the threads the same or do we get metric equivalents.

I wonder if they’ll be so good as to fool most of the people, down to makers marks and serial number ranges. There are plenty of gaps in the serial number ranges that I have collected over the past 30+ years but like the prototype M1 carbines we have at Warminster, nobody knew or even bothered to ask if we had them (number 11 and 13) when all of a sudden, number 11 suddenly ‘appeared’ in a collection in the US! There can’t be TWO prototypes numbered 11 can there? There can’t be TWO Mk2 scopes numbered 14825………….. or can there…..?

Personally, I can see no harm whatsoever with a repro in use on a rifle on the shooting ranges or in a collection. The trouble is 25 years hence, when the good repro is suddenly for sale as an original, factory fresh!

As an aside, I suppose it’s a bit like repro brackets. Certainly at least 50 of the FIRST repro brackets manufactured by Roger Payne (I’m sure he won’t mind me mentioning his name and my apologies if this is seen as advertising……….) in the UK in the 80’s were purchased by the UK MoD to refurbish wanting and needy L42’s prior to their being preserved in Ordnance stores as WAR RESERVE or MOBILIZATION stocks. You could, quite rightly, say that these were original. Indeed, there will be, by definition, 50 or so owners of L42’s with these brackets but they’re certainly not fake. On the same subject, here’s a little known snippet. In order to keep costs down for the final L42 War Reserve FTR programme, the MoD procurement people ordered the brackets LESS the 8x cradle screws, 2x thumb screws and double coil clamp washers! That’s what I call penny pinching…………

Any more views on the subject?

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[jmoore]

If its gotta be done, (which it will if there's money to be made) the best of all worlds would be to exactly reproduce the high wear and fragile bits (like lenses!) for thse that would buy scopes just for service parts. The non critical parts should be made enough different to at least discourage outright fakery.

[bigduke6]

Peter,

I dont have a problem with repro,s, but think they should have some marking on them to avoid being passed off as originals in the future.

I was not impressed with some "unmarked" No4T,s i had seen at the phoenix, the dealer had two, complete with transit chest etc, one quick look and i walked away.
there are many requirements to gain a RFD certificate, and one of the main ones is TRUST, it was obvious this was lacking in this dealer.

I built my own No4T but as a repro for myself, the scope was original, the mount and the pads were repro,s
This would not be possible if wasnt for repro parts, so it was great help having the parts available, if at the time there was a repro scope i would of bought one, due to the fact it would have some kind of gaurantee and replacement parts would be available.

Reproductions can give the collector the advantage of using or displaying his "piece" the other good thing that if the original item does come along at the right price then its a simple swap and the repro can be sold on,
but the downside is, forgers and dodgy dealers, will be rubbing there hands together when a good quality repro No32 scope hits our streets.

[limpetmine]

Un marked reproductions are to be shunned. The Sante Fe and Golden State modifications have become a small, but noticed area of collectibles. (I understand that some may disagree as to "how" collectible )
Marking reproductions in a discreet area would not diminish the value of the scope now, and would properly identify what it is 25 years hence. The unmarked Navy Arms modified Enfields are nothing more than a garage butcher shop pieces now, because there is is no way to prove otherwise.

[Peter Laidler]

There's a real Mk2/1 on 'that' auction site

[Roger Payne]

Peter,
Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons; when these putative repro No32's start breaking, will you be providing your services to the owners? I know they should come with a guarantee, but if things turn out anything like the situation with repro Nazi German scopes & mounts you'll have to catch the guy first to enforce the warranty.......

ATB

[Peter Laidler]

Mmmmmmmmmmm. I hadn't thought of that either. Have you ever heard the phrase that goes something like '.........not worth the paper they're written on' I think it referred to politicians promises. But it could well mean repro scope guarantees.