Tracers and bad bores

[RED]

For the past 50 years I have heard about the risks involved in shooting tracer ammo. The conventional wisdom is that many barrels have been ruined by firing tracers. Makes no sense to me.

All the tracers I have fired do not light until 100 yards (or more) after they have left the muzzle. If they are not lit or tracing inside the bore what difference does it make?

Here is a recent quote from this forum: "... brought some tracer rounds home, as well, and he and Dad had some fun firing them at night without proper cleaning afterward... "

Does anyone here have any factual information on the subject?

Information

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[John Kepler]

Tracer chemistry uses magnesium metal mixed with a strontium-based oxidizer (strontium nitrate, strontium chlorate, strontium peroxide or some combination thereof!). ALL of those oxidizers produce hydrophyllic/corrosive residue.

BTW, just cause you can't see it Red, don't mean it ain't burning...chemistry just doesn't work like that!

[Jim K]

Tracers have to start burning inside the bore because that is where the fire is to ignite them. But the design may allow the first part of the burn to be of slow burning material which will ignite a faster burning (and thus more visible burning) chemical downrange. So tracers do leave a residue in the barrel. It may not be harmful, but why take a chance? Since there is not much reason to be firing tracers in a civilian environment, and the danger of fire is high, I recommend keeping the tracers and other special ammo (incendiary, AP, spotter, explosive) for the ammo collection.

Jim

[John Kepler]

Apparently not too many people here understand about emission spectra! Hint: The color you see is based on the energy in the system....different energies...different emission spectra....some of them you can see, some of them you can't.....heat and pressure are "energy"! Second hint: The "higher energy" emission of strontium is in the near-Ultra-Violet, which isn't visible to the naked eye....the "lower energy" emission is red....the color shifts or "lights-up" when the over-all energy in the chemical system drops....not because it hasn't been "burning" the entire time!

Didn't ANYBODY take chemistry in high school?

[jjroth]

James V. Howe's "Gunsmithing", published in mid-30's.
He strongly advise against firing the tracers from WWI, due to the ignition and burning of the trace material, while in the bore.

Check "Hatcher's notebooks" there maybe a similiar advisement, I don't own a copy.

[TDH]

Apparently not too many people here understand about emission spectra! Hint: The color you see is based on the energy in the system....different energies...different emission spectra....some of them you can see, some of them you can't.....heat and pressure are "energy"! Second hint: The "higher energy" emission of strontium is in the near-Ultra-Violet, which isn't visible to the naked eye....the "lower energy" emission is red....the color shifts or "lights-up" when the over-all energy in the chemical system drops....not because it hasn't been "burning" the entire time!

Didn't ANYBODY take chemistry in high school?

actually no I didn't, nor geometry, I spent my time in Journalism and Drama. That's where the cute girls were.

[RED]

... take chemistry in either high school or college. I was more interested in history and economics. My observations are based more on common sense and experience. To my ignorant mind, it seems possible that oxygen is necessary for combustion. No 02 in the barrel... so ignition possibly happens when the the projectile encounters the air. Made sense to me anyway but I didn't know, that is why I asked the question.

John, you made it clear that I am just stupid. I should have known all about strontium based oxidizers and how they are in the red spectrum etc, etc. I guess maybe that is why some tracers I saw from the air were green.

Why shoot tracers anyway? Right?

[John Kepler]

Green tracers use barium chlorate rather than strontium chlorate as an oxidizer....a favorite chemistry of the old Com-bloc that gives you a green emission!

"Flame emission" was a favorite "Mr. Wizard" demonstration every Saturday morning (though it lost something in the translation to B&W TV!)....it's very basic chemistry that most folks are exposed to multiple times in their lives....every 4th of July not the least! Strontium and it's "Brilliant Red" is always used as a "flame test" demonstrator....my wife does it regularly with 4th and 5th Graders! I apologize for assuming that level of knowledge as part of a regular adult "skill-set"!

FWIW, the space immediately behind a bullet doesn't have a lot "O2" in it, as it's quite a hard vacuum....that's why for a tracer to burn, it has to have an independent oxidizer!

As for shooting them at all....my Dad the WW II aerial gunner agreed with you, and didn't belt tracers if he could get away with it, ignored them if he couldn't....considered them less than useless as their ballistics didn't match the rest of the ammo in the string.

[DaveHH]

You are making me ill with all of these chemicals. We can't shoot tracers in Kalif anyway, possession of one is a felony. I guess the liberals (who apparently are chemists) knew that they were hard on the barrels and banned them.