Gun Shop Owner Arrested

[John Kepler]

the convicted felon LIES on the government form. and uses a fake I.D. That answer your question Robin?

Given some of their past screw-ups, I trust the ATF about as far as I can throw their headquarters. You do NOT know the particulars of the case and yet you have already convicted the dealer. Thats up to the courts.

I am reminded ot the ATF's idea that private sales at gun shows are supplying criminals with ALL of their guns.

That's one way....though it's a bit tough to do with NICS....it also then becomes something that no Grand Jury, and without putting too fine a point on it, particularly one in Alabama, is going to "True Bill"! Q.E.D.

As for the rest....I hear ya John; know and largely agree with what you're saying....but sometimes they DO get it right, and a cigar is just a cigar!

[Dave]

The trator of Jesus was part of God,s plan, necessary to have him killed. (just a bit of history).

I really think gun sellers have to be real careful, with the new administration we have. I know many guys who sell at shows, regularly, 3-4 tables, inventory changes constently. No paper work. The ax will come down on these people! Just for the record; I think anyone ought to be able to sell personal property if they choose. Making a profit is beside the point.

[John Kepler]

Selling a firearm to a violent felon isn't in anyone's best interest. The Constitution was never meant to be a Suicide Pact!

BTW, what Burning Bush did God use to tell you what His plan actually was? Theology isn't history!

[0311Shooter]

Now hold on a second. I have bought a few rifles at a Gun Show table that I filled out NO papers for.

When I picked one out, said "I'll take it", whipped out my cold cash, those guys said "Oh, no paperwork on that one, it's from my PERSONAL collection".

Now, either the guy was telling the truth (A TRUTHER) or he just could look at my face and tell that I was an honest so and so. But since I do have an 03 FFL, I requested HIS name and address. Just in case...... Matter of fact, when I asked, one guy he said it was his wife's rifle (suuuuure) so he gave me her name and address. Trusting soul, ain't he.

I just assume (you know what that gets us) that everyone is as honest a guy as I am.

[Tired Retired]

Now hold on a second. I have bought a few rifles at a Gun Show table that I filled out NO papers for.

When I picked one out, said "I'll take it", whipped out my cold cash, those guys said "Oh, no paperwork on that one, it's from my PERSONAL collection".

Now, either the guy was telling the truth (A TRUTHER) or he just could look at my face and tell that I was an honest so and so. But since I do have an 03 FFL, I requested HIS name and address. Just in case...... Matter of fact, when I asked, one guy he said it was his wife's rifle (suuuuure) so he gave me her name and address. Trusting soul, ain't he.

I just assume (you know what that gets us) that everyone is as honest a guy as I am.

Ok, let me get this straight so we can rack up all the charges....

The wife was the owner of the rifle but you paid him. Well, it may have been a consignment, but sounds to me like she was employing him to sell the rifle. Who signed the receipt? Well, that makes him his wife's employee... Now, if she didnt have him on the clock, the Federal labor board has a violation... if he was on the clock, did she send in the social security and unemployment/FICA tax??? wait, if he was on the clock and he was selling his own firearms too, does that mean that the FICA taxes are a business deduction?????? Maybe she was just paying him a straight commission on making the sale for her... but who has the legal liability for damages if the weapon malfunctions and creates a tort law case (her as the owner or him as the seller) ? Does the receipt show any sales tax for the local community? Now if you put in on your FFL log and it wasn't on his, what happens when the third round out the barrel strikes the local ATF agent in the butt while he is fishing? Or does that count just on the second Saturday of the week during that gunshow???


(0311shooter, not trying to pick or attack you - it was just a good set up)

Guys, seriously, I am not complaining... but lets look are what we put on this thread. We all have seen things that are NQR (Not Quite Right). Alot of us have also seen "Big Brother" do things that were a bit over the line. There are good gun owners (and dealers) and there are a few that should never, NEVER be allowed around any kind of weapons stronger than a rubber band. When the founding fathers set the rules in place, they deems it necessary that 10 guilty guys walk free to prevent 1 innocent guy from being wrongly convicted. In this case, none of us weren't there and we have not seen the exact details - just the always "trustworthy", never dramatized news report.

[John Kepler]

In this case, none of us weren't there and we have not seen the exact details - just the always "trustworthy", never dramatized news report.

Of course there's that pesky little Grand Jury indictment....or are you accusing the media of mis-reporting that?

[conductor]

Mr. Kepler: Have you never heard the saying that any good prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich?
Just because the guy was indicted doesn't mean a damn thing. The defendant doesn't appear before the grand jury. Neither does his attorney. The Grand Jury hears only one side of the story...the prosecution's side. Let's see how this shakes out in court before we make any judgements, okay?

[Tired Retired]

LOL, John, I really wanted to say above all this...

My comment was actually aimed at mainstream news media in general.... we all have seen seen a "left tilt" and a few bends with added drama when it comes to gun stories...

I knew COP Garrett when he was a precinct Captain, went to police academy with his son, and I have had a few dealings with the lawyer(???) in court cases. And a key person for the news dept for that channel has been called a bit of a "drama princess" by some... Guess that was straight up reporting to shock the lady in the car into a spontaneous statement by informing her that her brother-in-law was indicted... Its really unfair for me to say more....

Like I implied in my earlier posts... the grand jury may have found some fire where we are just seeing smoke....

I'm just going to follow the events like everyone else from this point and not comment further... out.

[Tired Retired]

oppsssss (edit function timed out).... should read "stay above all this.... not "say"....

[John Kepler]

OF course this is all still "sub-judice" and subject to trial....but by the same token, it isn't, based on the facts extant, "smoke and mirrors" either. There IS enough evidence to put it front of a jury, and a quick peruse of any law journal will show that in spite of the rhetoric that states a Prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.....once a Grand Jury indicts, the Home Team wins over 90% of the time! I'm an engineer, I play with numbers......we build multi-million dollar projects on a 90% confidence-level.

As a firearms owner, the LAST thing I want muddying the water is a dirty dealer (not to be confused with a merely stupid dealer). At this stage of the game, all a trial is actually going to do is determine if the guy is truly dirty, or just dumb. In the case I was inadvertently involved with, the dealer was dirty as sin from several different directions, and tried to stay out of jail by claiming he was stupid, but honest....which were two afflictions my old buddy Bill transparently never quite had, and why he ended up doing 3 years in a Federal Golf-Course Maintenance Academy!