Return Of The Townsend Whelen .35

[Jim Tarleton]

Could be, but I doubt it.

Jim

[mr humble]

Well let's start with the basics.
1. Chuck in Denver has never met me nor seen my Hoffer as I have never had it for sale at any gunshow. As for his "expert opinion" I'm sure he can tell us how much more he knows than J.C. Harrison about Hoffers.
2. Any fool who thinks SRS has correct data on every 03 is wrong. Can anyone really suggest that andy government agency (the aresenals) had complete accurate records on every gun that went through?
3. The former owner of the 35 Whelen had a step-father who was a barrel maker at Springfield. Any of you have that kind of connection?
4. When a seller offers a COA and a 100% purchase price refund given an affidavit from a recognized 03 expert saying it is wrong, I find it hard to be so paranoid.
5. I raised the price to shut up the "experts" who think they know something about 03s' and SA production.
6. Col Whelen owned a lot more rifles than pictured (with all the photos printed backwards) (any of you experts catch that?) in Mr. Rifleman.
7. As for the 27 books published.... well DUH, you could look at my other auctions and you would see the ones that are still in print all for sale there.
8. Outside of Petrov (whose writeup on the myth of the 400 Whelen is featured in the latest book I published), the rest of you sound like you're repeating the mantra's put out by other "experts".
9. Rick, you might want to catch up with facts. York's family has stated in print that he used an 03'. Or are they liars too? Proving the 35 is not right should be a piece of cake for a published expert on 03s' such as yourself.
10. You bet I have an attitude. It is confined to wannabes who waste the time of those of us who have been serious 03 collectors for decades, in my case five.
It's easy to crap on someone else'd stuff when you have nothing but hot air to offer in support.
You all have a wonderful, smug day.

[Mike Haas]

Well let's start with the basics.
1. Chuck in Denver has never met me nor seen my Hoffer as I have never had it for sale at any gunshow. As for his "expert opinion" I'm sure he can tell us how much more he knows than J.C. Harrison about Hoffers.
2. Any fool who thinks SRS has correct data on every 03 is wrong. Can anyone really suggest that andy government agency (the aresenals) had complete accurate records on every gun that went through?
3. The former owner of the 35 Whelen had a step-father who was a barrel maker at Springfield. Any of you have that kind of connection?
4. When a seller offers a COA and a 100% purchase price refund given an affidavit from a recognized 03 expert saying it is wrong, I find it hard to be so paranoid.
5. I raised the price to shut up the "experts" who think they know something about 03s' and SA production.
6. Col Whelen owned a lot more rifles than pictured (with all the photos printed backwards) (any of you experts catch that?) in Mr. Rifleman.
7. As for the 27 books published.... well DUH, you could look at my other auctions and you would see the ones that are still in print all for sale there.
8. Outside of Petrov (whose writeup on the myth of the 400 Whelen is featured in the latest book I published), the rest of you sound like you're repeating the mantra's put out by other "experts".
9. Rick, you might want to catch up with facts. York's family has stated in print that he used an 03'. Or are they liars too? Proving the 35 is not right should be a piece of cake for a published expert on 03s' such as yourself.
10. You bet I have an attitude. It is confined to wannabes who waste the time of those of us who have been serious 03 collectors for decades, in my case five.
It's easy to crap on someone else'd stuff when you have nothing but hot air to offer in support.
You all have a wonderful, smug day.

WOW!! - One of you guys walked past the "Junkyard" and kicked the gate. Now the Guarddog has his backhair up and is frothing and barking!!

[Bob S]

This is like watching Leave It To Beaver reruns. Same thing with same guy on the cast bullet forum ...

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Calif-Steve]

Ten years back I knew a dealer at the Great Western Show who had a mint pre-war S&W M&P .38 Special revolver for sale. He wanted real money for it and had no takers. He eventually sold it to a big-time dealer in Huntington Beach,CA. About three months later my buddy sees that same revolver for huge money at a high-end gunshow. It now had a superb provenance, as being the property of a well known US Army WWII General and had a letter from said General's wife. In the box were WWII ribbons and a short bio of the General. The gun was sold by the end of the day. Dealers tells me it is easier to fake up paperwork then fake up a gun. "Let the buyer beware".

[Alvin Linden]

Well let's start with the basics.
1. Chuck in Denver has never met me nor seen my Hoffer as I have never had it for sale at any gunshow. As for his "expert opinion" I'm sure he can tell us how much more he knows than J.C. Harrison about Hoffers.
2. Any fool who thinks SRS has correct data on every 03 is wrong. Can anyone really suggest that andy government agency (the aresenals) had complete accurate records on every gun that went through?
3. The former owner of the 35 Whelen had a step-father who was a barrel maker at Springfield. Any of you have that kind of connection?
4. When a seller offers a COA and a 100% purchase price refund given an affidavit from a recognized 03 expert saying it is wrong, I find it hard to be so paranoid.
5. I raised the price to shut up the "experts" who think they know something about 03s' and SA production.
6. Col Whelen owned a lot more rifles than pictured (with all the photos printed backwards) (any of you experts catch that?) in Mr. Rifleman.
7. As for the 27 books published.... well DUH, you could look at my other auctions and you would see the ones that are still in print all for sale there.
8. Outside of Petrov (whose writeup on the myth of the 400 Whelen is featured in the latest book I published), the rest of you sound like you're repeating the mantra's put out by other "experts".
9. Rick, you might want to catch up with facts. York's family has stated in print that he used an 03'. Or are they liars too? Proving the 35 is not right should be a piece of cake for a published expert on 03s' such as yourself.
10. You bet I have an attitude. It is confined to wannabes who waste the time of those of us who have been serious 03 collectors for decades, in my case five.
It's easy to crap on someone else'd stuff when you have nothing but hot air to offer in support.
You all have a wonderful, smug day.

Since it was my post that reignited this issue I feel I should take my share of the heat. Here is the way I see it:
1.After you sort through through all the puffing above, there is not one actual piece of REAL provenance to prove the TW ownership of this rifle. [e.g. A photo of TW with the rifle or a mention of the rifle and the SA barrel maker and his connection to TW in his writing.] Absolutely nothing identifiable or concrete to prove this rifle ever belonged to TW! The only thing we have is your word and your C.O.A. If the barrel maker was the key to the provenance, why is there no statement from him, so that he can be identified as a SA employee? Saying something does not make it so, just because you once wrote a book(s). You also purchased it from the alledged step-son and not the barrel maker, another layer away from verifiable information.

2. I myself would question just what 03 expert's word you would accept to obtain a refund,when it is obviously clear to me, that you don't believe anyone to have greater knowledge than you on this topic or any, for that matter. We are talking about thousands of dollars,that once you get it, you will be the final arbiter of whether or not someone has proven to your satisfaction if you should have to give back the money on a rifle ,now proven to be a fraud! That's like the fox guarding the chicken coop!

3.Your assertion that you raised the price up to $16,000 to "shut up the experts" is what we in the 25th. I.D. in the R.V.N. called " Ben Tre Logic" or "We had to destroy the village. in order to save it". I believe instead, you became a practitioner of "the big lie". Once it became known among the auction regulars about the "Questionable N.R.A. / TW Rifle on AA" you knew your potential market would have to be the uninformed. So you thought $16,000 would make it seem more authentic to them.

4.I don't know Rick or Chuck personally,nor have I done business with them. That being said I read their posts and I like them! I believe if we ever met, I would like them in person as well. They seem to be like my friends here at home, that I shoot and hunt with and yes occasionally drink a beer or two with. The main reason I like them though, is they take their time, day in and day out to help answer question for guys with problems with their 03's! I mean a lot of time, more time than I have to give, even if I had the knowledge. I like Michael Petrov don't even collect military 03's, but instead collect pre-war 03 custom sporter's. However I still read and learn everyday from these guys and I've never met them. I grew up in a gunstore and I am on my 48th. year working on these things. So don't be so quick to ridicule these guys on this blog, for our failure to have 27 books published [after looking at your auction it appears you may own a printing house and just maybe, published 27 books,not authored 27 books!] after all, WE WERE SMART ENOUGH TO CATCH ON TO THE TW SCAM YOU'RE RUNNING. THEREFORE...

I'VE COME TO REALIZE ...IT'S NOT YOUR ATTITUDE THAT'S THE PROBLEM...IT REALLY IS YOU!

[Jim Tarleton]

Well spoken, Alvin. Particularly Item #4, in which sentiment I would like to join you. Chuck and Rick, we have your six covered.

"3. The former owner of the 35 Whelen had a step-father who was a barrel maker at Springfield. Any of you have that kind of connection?" (The barrels at Springfield were made in very numerous steps by an equal number of employees. Exactly which step did this "barrel maker" perform? Crowning?)

I have a cousin who has a girl friend whose neighbor down the street once delivered a pizza to Chuck Norris. Does that count?

Mr. Humble: Can you honestly not see our problem with your ad and assertions about this rifle? Surely your sole basis for claiming this rifle to have once been owned by CTW is not based on a statement by some unknown "barrel maker" from the distant past? Would you buy a rifle from one of us for a veery stiff price on that same basis? I am not trying to upset you, I am just curious about the provenance of the rifle.

Jim
(Alvin #3)

[Rick the Librarian]

I fully realize that Alvin York may have used a M1903. The point I was trying to make (and yes, in a sarcastic way, I admit!!) is that most rare items for sale are not stated so that you have to prove the item is not authentic. Mr. Humble may be as right as rain (and yes, I have no way of proving him right or wrong) but in the end, I wouldn't pay $16,000 for something without more information. Others maybe would. If he can get $16,000 for the rifle, more power to him.

And by the way, thanks, Jim and Alvin!! You guys are great!

[mr humble]

In case it is not obvious... the 16K pricetag is a joke just to shut up the wannabes. I notice that where, when and who facts about your boy turning down my Hoffer at some mythical gunshow are failing to appear.... hmm, who is bsing whom? Being sarcastic may be fun but only shows you have no concrete facts to back up all you loud mouthed babble. You want an expert I'll accept for a refund? Try Canfield or Harrison. Finally I never said I wrote the books (only one) but rather that I published them. With the exception of Mike, I can't recall seeing any of your titles at any of the book shows????
So put up or shut up. It takes a big set of balls to hide behind a keyboard and crap on someone else with no facts just uninformed opinions.
What gun show was that again?. LMFAO.

[Calif-Steve]

"Put up or shut up?" OK, exactly what Gunshow will this "keeper" be shown at??? I will make an effort to be there. Could you have it at the CMP Western Games? This is a very nice '03 Sporter and worth fair money. Why do you find in necessary to put up a bogus story to sell this rifle? It stands on its own merits. What provenance?? Again: What Gunshow and when???