Serial number "relocated"

[Jeff L]

I didn't think that modifying serial numbers was legal. Take a look.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138241033

-Jeff L

Information

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[Liam]

I don't see ANYTHING on that receiver to have been "relocated."

[Michael Petrov]

The serial number only mattered after 1968. Before then it was common for a custom gunmaker to remove all markings from a 1903 including the serial number. Some firms relocated the number to the bottom of the action or barrel where it would be covered by wood.

[Johnny Peppers]

Actually the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 covered obliterated or altered serial numbers. It was largely ignored at the time unless a firearm with an obliterated serial number was used in a crime.

The Federal Firearms Act[17] became law with the approval of President Roosevelt on June 30th, 1938. It went into effect on July 30th with the purpose of regulating interstate commerce in firearms and consequently curbing the possession of such weapons by criminals. The, Act provides for the licensing of all manufacturers and dealers in the interstate commerce of firearms. Criminals are banned from either receiving or sending firearms in interstate or foreign com- [Page 439] merce. Stolen firearms and those with obliterated serial numbers are barred from such commerce. The Act has nine sections but for purposes of clarity and brevity shall be treated under three divisions: definitions, prohibitions., and administration.

Section 902i forbids the shipping, transporting, or knowingly receiving, in interstate or foreign commerce, of any firearm from which the manufacturer's serial number has been removed, obliterated or altered, "and the possession of any such firearm shall be presumptive evidence that such firearm was transported, shipped, or received, as the case may be, by the possessor in violation of this Act."[30] It is clear that the presumption applies only to the instant subdivision for only under this section is there any ban against such firearm.

[Chuckindenver]

someplace, it says, a gunsmith may remove the serial number and replace it, as long as its not changed, for repair, or refinish.
unless something has changed.

[Jeff L]

chuck,

Does that mean it has to go back in the same place or can it be "relocated" per said rifle?

thanks

-Jeff L

[Vi Shooter]

Going by what I remember from looking into this in the past, replacement SN's have to go in a conspicuous location where it isn't easily removed, be at least .003" deep and at least 1/16" tall.

Even a stolen gun that has had its SN removed can have it replaced or a new one assigned by the ATF. The picture below (found on SigForum) is of a recovered P220 (stolen from a gun store) that had an ATF assigned SN applied. Note the "ATF" prefix to the number.

[Donzi]

Just out of curiosity, how does Century International's penchant for stamping entirely new s/ns on imported wepons figure into this?
Donzi

[Emri]

chuck,

Does that mean it has to go back in the same place or can it be "relocated" per said rifle?

thanks

-Jeff L

You can re-stamp, (not engrave!), the serial number as chuck stated, but it MUST be in a different place. Even if you can't see the original, it can be brought back up using certain chemicals and techniques. I've done it many times. (re-stamp during re-finishing, not bring up old numbers)

Once, when an old pistol with no number was present, I contacted the local ATF office for guidance. Their reply was "just put a number on it." "what number" I asked? "It doesn't matter, as long as it has a number." It was not a stolen gun like the one VI shooter showed.

I have also refused to work on firearms where the serial number was purposely defaced in an attempt to decieve or mis-lead. THAT is definitely a no-no with ATF.

FWIW,

Emri

[Emri]

Just out of curiosity, how does Century International's penchant for stamping entirely new s/ns on imported wepons figure into this?
Donzi

Quite a few of those guns have numbers hard to read, illegible, possibly duplicate, or non-existant. When they import a batch of guns, they assign serial number blocks for them and all the guns are marked with a new number and the importer mark. It is probably easier to keep up with acquisition and disposition with new numbers.

FWIW,

Emri