Type 1A barrel band???

[nhetzer]

Hello all, I was wondering if any of you could tell me how to spot a fake type 1A barrel band. I know condiiton is a good indicator but what else should I look for as my endless quest to find one continues? I don't want to be the guy who didn't know any better and paid top dollar for a knock off. Also, any idea where I can pick up just the swivel portion of one??? Thanks everyone!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[shadycon]

If it is in new condition-blued-metal looks thin-the screw top should fit a shell rim for take down-look at spot welds,ugly,not good. Their are folks that know more than me here so maybe they will add or correct me .

[Milsurp Collector]

Hello all, I was wondering if any of you could tell me how to spot a fake type 1A barrel band. I know condiiton is a good indicator...

Actually, condition is not a good indicator, and one of the sellers of fakes is taking advantage of the "if it looks old it must be real" belief.

Look at these bands for example, look nice and old, right?






The are currently for sale on Ebay by a notorious seller of fake items who is located in California. Next week he'll have more just like those to sell. And the week after that, and the week after that...

Someone posted this on the CMP forum:

I have a friend who sells carbines at gun shows and he buys repo sights and carries them around in his pocket for a couple of months to make them look worn and sells them at gun shows. So who can you trust.

Lash USAF Ret.Flt Eng.

So don't be fooled by condition. Humpers of fake Nazi helmets have perfected aging methods to make their freshly-painted "SS camo" helmets look 65 years old, and sellers of fake carbine parts are doing the same thing.

It can be hard to judge a fake by pictures, but the main thing I have found is that a real band fits perfectly and a repro doesn't.

[jimb16]

Let's see, screw heads are wrong, thickness of the swivels is wrong, M-R is not real, Just for starters.....

[Harlan (Deceased)]

nhetzer,

I'm glad you asked here before spending a huge amount of money buying a Type-1 band from the internet. Unfortunately there isn't an easy way to tell you how to spot a fake without having years of firsthand knowledge. The responses you have already received are from knowledgeable collectors and they know what the are talking about with this issue.

Authentic Type-1 barrel bands are very, very rare and sought after. As such, there has been a market for creating fakes for many years. If money is involved, crooks will take advantage. 'Milsurp Collector' gave a very good example of how far crooks have gone to trying to make money by fraud.
(To a knowledgeable eye, the stamping is easy to spot and Jimb16 is correct with everything he posted)
The seller for this one is a known crook and he preys on people selling his fakes. He usually sells them with the most desirable maker markings he can stamp and he sometimes gets unbelievably high bids for bands he buys for $10 and then 'ages' them and places fake stamps on. He's been doing it for years and gets away with it. Little can actually be done about it and there are many others doing the same thing.

Without saying a lot more, please understand that authentic Type-1 bands are almost completely nonexistent on most auction sites. They may be for sale in rare cases but it's not the norm at all. Photos can be very deceptive but knowledgeable collectors as those above are able to spot a fake in seconds when inspecting it in person. (You can usually tell the fakes from the first second you pick them up)

Type 1 bands are still around but most are only available from trusted private individuals.
(Type-1 rear sights fall into this same category)

[nhetzer]

Thank you all for your insight. The only place I have ever seen any for sale on a regular basis (huge red flag for me) is Riverbank Armory in California. not sure if this is the notorious California dealer everyone is talking about but they sell Type 1A barrel bands as well as the rear flip sights with various markings. They say on their site that they get them from "estates" or whatever and they certainly price things as if they are original. Does anybody know if this stuff is legitimate? Because I have to admit that I have been tempted to just bite the proverbial bullet and drop the cash on the sights and barrel band for my Singer Carbine. They are the only correct pieces I am missing and I am now at that point where I am rationalizing that dropping well over $200 for a couple of tiny pieces of metal is totally worth it. So to recap, is Riverbank Armory reputable? I apologize if "name dropping" is frowned upon here. Just trying to get to the bottom of this. Thanks again for all the help guys.

[Milsurp Collector]

Yes, Riverbank Armory AKA m1carbineparts.com and No Guts No Glory on Gunbroker.com AKA abcleigh on Ebay is the notorious California seller referred to in this and other forums.

You have four choices. If you are on a budget or impatient, get reproduction parts at reproduction parts prices so you have kinda what you want while you save up money, learn how to spot fakes (Humped or what? - Military Surplus Collectors Forums), and search for real parts.

Or, don't buy the reproduction parts and just use what you have while you do the same things mentioned above.

Or, you could re-evaluate whether you really need to "correct" or "restore" your carbine in the first place. M1 carbines had early features for maybe the first 4-5 years of their service. The vast majority were rebuilt and upgraded after World War II, and then they were used in their improved rebuilt configuration (Type 3 band, flip safety, adjustable rear sight, etc.) for many years after World War II, in Korea and elsewhere Does anybody else like late model features? - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Even if you find a genuine Type 1 band, flip site, etc. you still won't have an original carbine. It just isn't the same thing. You could end up spending a lot of money on something that is worth less than the sum of its parts.

Finally, if only an early feature World War II configuration will do, you could save up $1000-2000 and buy the real thing. Original configuration carbines are out there, they just aren't cheap.

[imarangemaster]

I understand the desire to "restore" a carbine to WWII form. I restored a 7.62x39 Saiga to it's intended (semi auto) AK103 form. It, however, was just a sporter with no "History."

My M1, however, has at some point been rebuilt with late features. All are probably shortly after the war, maybe Korean war. As it has not been re-finished, the stock is a WW2 NPM with cartouche, and the parts finish is pretty close, it was certainly not recent. The fact that it was then probably used by Israeli Mash Az police in its current updated form is a second "cool" factor. Some day I will pick up a CMP Inland and restore it with repro parts just for looks (and less expense).

Right now, though, my "B" Underwood sits on the closet shelf with a "SEY" 30 rounder and a stock pouch with two 15s for a house and farm weapon. With my trashed right shoulder pending yet another open surgery and rebuild, even the Saiga with a brake on it is too much recoil. The carbine, on the other hand, will do just fine with 110 JSP Remingtons!