Is my M1917 shooting low.

[mdoerner]

Took my Eddystone out for a whirl at the 75 yard range I have free access to. When I used the ladder sight, I had to use the 300 yard setting to hit the black. At 75 yards, is that the "normal" setting (i.e. is the bullet still on it's way "up" to the apogee of it's trajectory at 75 yards) with the M1917 sights?

If the sight is off, I assume I need to file down the front post, correct? Thanks in advance.

Mike Doerner

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[noro]

Hi Mike,

I would disregard the sight markings and just set them where you want the rifle to shoot. These markings were calibrated for the M1906 service cartridge with 150 gr bullet. I doubt if your shooting will require using the exact yardage situations.

If you are shooting low, just raise the aperature Springfield Sporters offer an assortment of sight blades in which you can probably find a lower one that suits your shooting.

[Calif-Steve]

Sight picture might be an issue. The front sight blade should be in the middle of your sight picture. I'll bet you have the front sight blade low in your sight picture.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Yes, it could be the sight calibration, but it could also be a warped stock pulling down at the front end. Easy to check: Remove the upper band. In fact you can only slide it up to the foresight block (the "ears), but that is enough. Has the barrel risen right up in the channel? Since you cannor remove the band completely, slide a bit of felt or cloth between the band and the barrel, so that you can test fire a couple of shot without the rattling band scratching the barrel surface.

If the point of impact is now several inches higher, then the band was pulling the barrel down, and you will have to rectify that fault before doing anything else. While the band is loose, you might as well remove both handguards and check that there is no contact between the barrel and the wood anywhere along the channel. Now replace the upper band, but not the handguards. If a binding now occurs somewhere between upper band and the barrel shoulder, then the stock is warped and has been trying to bend the barrel around the tight spot.

If this is all OK, then don't worry too much. As Noro wrote, the ammo used for sight calibration was different, and my M1917 also requires the 200 yard setting for 100 yds.

Patrick

Patrick

[Pattern14]

If this is all OK, then don't worry too much. As Noro wrote, the ammo used for sight calibration was different, and my M1917 also requires the 200 yard setting for 100 yds.

Now I can understand why my No.3's sight has to be set at 300 yards to hit center at 100 yards.

[Patrick Chadwick]

With British rifles, you don't have to be surprised at all. Some/all (????) were set up to hit dead center when using the "tin-hat" target. For the benefit of those who do not know what that is, it is a semicircular bull, supposed to represent a tin hat peeping over the edge of a trench (sometimes we forget what those rifles were intended to be used for).

The correct point of aim was with what Peter Laidler would call a gnat's knacker of white showing between the top of the blade and the horizontal bottom line of the black. In other words Point of Impact = Point of Aim.
If you let the black merge with the foresight blade, your judgement of the height went right off, resulting in tall, thin groups.

If you fire a rifle that has been set up like this at the usual round black, using the typical 6 o'clock hold, then you are in fact aiming your rifle at the 6 o'clock point, so it is no surprise if the shots go low. If you are using a target sized for 100 yards and pull it back to 75, they will be even lower, as the target appears larger in the sights, so the 6 o'clock point, expressed in MOA, is even lower.

I suspect that the British setting was much more effective under battle conditions, as reports ever since the days of Brown Bess indicate that under stress conditions the usual tendency was for Tommy Poilu Grunt to shoot too high. A bit like footballers taking a penalty shot. Many shoot too high, hardly anyone kicks a daisy-cutter.

Like I said, don't worry. The worse problem is the typical Mauser type rifle, set up to hit dead center on a round target at 300 meters, which almost always requires fitting a higher foresight blade before you can get in the black at all at 100.

Patrick

[Pattern14]

Thanks Patrick,
I've been there with a 1940 98K Daimler-Steyr-Puch and had to purchase a higher front sight just to get holes on paper (never mind the black!) at 100 yards.

[mdoerner]

Yes, it could be the sight calibration, but it could also be a warped stock pulling down at the front end. Easy to check: Remove the upper band. In fact you can only slide it up to the foresight block (the "ears), but that is enough. Has the barrel risen right up in the channel? Since you cannor remove the band completely, slide a bit of felt or cloth between the band and the barrel, so that you can test fire a couple of shot without the rattling band scratching the barrel surface.

If the point of impact is now several inches higher, then the band was pulling the barrel down, and you will have to rectify that fault before doing anything else. While the band is loose, you might as well remove both handguards and check that there is no contact between the barrel and the wood anywhere along the channel. Now replace the upper band, but not the handguards. If a binding now occurs somewhere between upper band and the barrel shoulder, then the stock is warped and has been trying to bend the barrel around the tight spot.

If this is all OK, then don't worry too much. As Noro wrote, the ammo used for sight calibration was different, and my M1917 also requires the 200 yard setting for 100 yds.

Patrick

Patrick

Checked the stock, it's not pulling away from the barrel when I remove the upper band. Tight fitting though, so if my POI changes when my barrel heats up, then I'll relieve some wood. Good thinkin' though.

Mike D

[Garand]

The battle sight for the M1917 is set at 400 meters IAW http://www.nicolausassociates.com/PD...t%20Flight.pdf

Last year I wanted to adjust my front sight on my P14 and was very successful using one of the 12 different sights from the Lee Enfield #4 Mk1, this might be a solution rather then bringing out the file.

[Dan Wilson]

Uh, I am sure it said YARDs and not meters, but that aside you will see both 400 and 450 documented in various govt documents as to the battle sight setting, Which is right? I just go with 425 and split the difference.

Dan