criterion garand barrel

[George Sr.]

You are correct about the acceptence of m-2 ball as far as accuracy goes. It is not minute of angle ammo in any way.The acceptence is approx. 3.75 inches at 100 yrds.

[Texasflyboy]

If Lake City .30 Ball (or for that matter M80 Ball) ever shot as well as its perceived reputation, I would be sitting on tens of thousands of rounds of it.

The facts tho are different. Lake City .30 or M80 has rarely if ever, shot anything close to match or handload performance with any weapon we've tried in 20 years of attempts. Granted, our most fervent wish is that USGI Ball ammo would shoot MOA in stock service weapons, but its simply not been able to be proven in the field with numerous shooters and numerous weapons. Therefore, I've never gotten excited about Lake City ammo for sale, cheap or expensive.

What has been odd is the distinct absence of a correlation between looks and performance.

One lot of FN dated 1957 .30 ball in several 03A3's was MOA out to 300 yards, shot after shot, after shot. This FN was imported by Century in the 90's and came in square metal cans that were very unique. Boxes were crumbly, rounds were dark with minor corrosion. I still have several of the cans, but the ammo is long gone. Wish I could find more.

Several lots of Austrian 7.62x51 Ball were MOA in both my M1A's out to 300 yards. The ammo was dirty, dusty, and the boxes looked liked they had been sitting in a dusty warehouse since 1971. It shot phenomenal. Again, wish I had more.

Several lots of MEN 7.62x51 approached MOA out to 200 yards. Clean, bright, shiny brass, made in the 1970's. Perfect boxes, perfect ammo. Shot very well. Still have quite a bit of it.

Bright beautiful brand new surplus Lake City M80 ball. 5" at 200 yards in a NM M1A. More than .40 a round when we bought it. Was glad to sell it for .30/round at a gunshow and buy something else.

It's been proven by us at least, that over the years, several batches of ammo that LOOKED bad shot well. Several batches of ammo that LOOKED GREAT shot bad. Looks have nothing to do with performance. Neither is there any "magical" blessing that falls under any name....like Lake City.

One credit I will give to Lake City is Quality Control. I know of no other small arms manufacturer in the world that is as effective at weeding out bad rounds like Lake City and their QC team. Simply unsurpassed.

[JBS]

under the right conditions (i.e. honest verification by third parties), I would be quite happy to place my own 500 bucks cash down anytime against 100 bucks from anyone who thinks they can sit down and get an HONEST NO BS 2MOA (i.e. 2 inch group or LESS) with two consecutive full clips (8 shots) of ANY USGI LC M2 Ball ammunition ever made off any rest they like from a STOCK M1 Garand. The dial caliper never lies and virtually ALWAYS disappoints.

The military accpatance standard for M2 ball (best I can recall) was about FOUR (4) MOA (or less) from a TEST BARREL FIXTURE. Even hand-loaded into carefully prepped cases with weighed charges, M2 heads still stink and constiture a waste of powder and primers.

You sure like to thump your chest don’t you. Not being informed to the highest degree of aptitude I shall hesitate to articulate for fear I may deviate from the true course of rectitude, and shall leave all things Garand to your Expertise and Mastery. By your leave.

[AKA Hugh Uno]

I shall hesitate to articulate for fear I may deviate from the true course of rectitude, and shall leave all things Garand to your Expertise and Mastery. By your leave.

good idea.

[Jim K in NE]

I do agree with Texasflyboy as I have shot a lot of FN 57-58 and it shoots
better than the Hornaday's M1 168 A-max, I have one unopened case of it
left but I don't shoot much anymore so it may last the rest of my life.
Just a thought, I have had many Match grade M1's over the years as well
as a custom built by Don McCoy. sad to say but my M1a's would outshoot
all of them.
I have found the SA barrels from 1951 and up to be as accurate as many
customs I have installed.
We had R Lee Earmey filming a Lock & Load series #9 a month ago and I talked
with him for hours about M1's and M1a's. He used four of my rifles for the show
and during our talk he stated he has four M1's and his best match rifle is a 2 MOA,
he also said his M1'A's will out shoot his M1's and the M1A is his favorite rifle.

[JBS]

I do agree with Texasflyboy as I have shot a lot of FN 57-58 and it shoots
better than the Hornaday's M1 168 A-max, I have one unopened case of it
left but I don't shoot much anymore so it may last the rest of my life.
Just a thought, I have had many Match grade M1's over the years as well
as a custom built by Don McCoy. sad to say but my M1a's would outshoot
all of them.
I have found the SA barrels from 1951 and up to be as accurate as many
customs I have installed.
We had R Lee Earmey filming a Lock & Load series #9 a month ago and I talked
with him for hours about M1's and M1a's. He used four of my rifles for the show
and during our talk he stated he has four M1's and his best match rifle is a 2 MOA,
he also said his M1'A's will out shoot his M1's and the M1A is his favorite rifle.

M1As and M14s will generally always out shoot a Garand unless they are "sick". They have a shorter operating system and better gas system design. The 7.62 round just adds icing to the cake. What was the Tattoo on his arms ? they are too old and run together to make out on TV.

[Kirk]

"The stock on this rifle also has a back and forth motion to it when the trigger guard is removed."

The loose fitting stock may be your problem. Try a different stock that fits tight or bed the one you have. Bedding can't be used on a rifle uswed in CMP Garand matches but if you don't compete, give it a try. Thee should be no fore & aft movement without the TG in place.

[Jim K in NE]

Kirk is correct, if a stock does not lock tight it will not shoot very well.
I have tightened many M1's for John Garand matches by Tig welding the
trigger guard lugs where they have the flats worn from years of lock up.
Weld the worn flat area and file them leaving a little more then the orignal
diameter, try it in the rifle, if it is tight file a little more until it locks with
a little smack from the heel of your hand. Use mild steel rod not SS then
it can be cold blued and it blends nice and can not be seen.
This is OK for JG match rifles, shims or bedding is not.

[Jocko]

Colt100 - First off let me confirm I don't pretend to be the "know it all" of Garands like so many on this forum, I have built 6 match grade rifles
for fellas and 2 for myself and rebarreled dozens of rifles. With that said, I just rebarreled a gentlemen's Garand this past week with one of CMP's Criterion barrels. Went to the range this past Sunday to function fire and get sighted in for him. After getting zeroed on paper I ran a full 8 rd clip and 5 out of the 8 rds were touching and the other three 1 inch off the group. I forgot my rest so was shooting sitting at a bench resting the rifle on a couple of sweatshirts. I was very happy with that accuracy - was using LC '69 ball ammo. This is no BS although Hugh Uno I'm sure will have something to say.
A suggestion about stock fit - like Jim K & Kirk were saying you want to have minimal movement. Without trying shims or any other thing that would make your rifle non - JCG match compliant, if you have rifle in the stock movement
try using a few coats of tung oil on the inside. Allow each coat to dry completely before applying the next. One of my As-Issue rifles was a bit loose and I did this and it tightened right up. I did 3 coats. Lasted about two seasons and did it again this past summer.

Hope this helps - good luck

[colt100]

Although my stock does have some movement, I just checked my barrel and the TE is over an "8" on the stone ax gage. The gage only goes up to 8. This rifle used to shoot well with this stock, even though it moved.

I don't compete so I'm not too worried about Match rules. I have 5 other garands that came from the CMP. I have one IHC that TE is a 2 and MW is a 1.5. That would be the rifle I would compete with. The barrel is an LMR barrel also.

I am NOT planning on shooting (much) surplus in this rifle. In no way was I saying that this rifle would be able to shoot 2 MOA with LC surplus. I did say that surplus did have bigger groups. I am NOT (pay attention Hugh) saying that LC surplus is in anyway match grade or that I would expect that every new garand would be able to shoot surplus under 2 MOA. I would be happy with 2 MOA with surplus. I was asking real world experience from someone who has simmilar work done to a garand so I would have some expectation on what to expect accuracy wise. For 200 dollars more, I could have kreiger install a match barrel, glass bed the current stock, float the handguards and get a trigger job. I would expect that service would produce a rifle that would hold at least 1.5 MOA with MATCH grade handloads. My main question was wether it would be better to just restock and rebarrel the garand and match prep one of my other garands in the future or just match prep this one, but we seemed to get off track discussing LC ball ammo.

I like LC ball. I have had much better luck with LC ball then the rest of you it sounds. LC ball from the 60's is underpowdered but works great for most shooting I do. Practicing positions, general shooting, ect. M80 ball (LC 03 to be exact) allowed me to hit a 24 inch gong at 500 yards, offhand, with iron sights, when I first bought my M1a. I didn't hit it every time but I'm sure that some of that was me. That ammo impressed me for how accurate it was for M80 ball.

I mainly like LC ammo for the brass that I get. I love the LC brass for reloading and get very consistant loads with it.

Hugh, do you have one of these barrels or are you just guessing?

Thanks for everyone that has posted.