Strange Enforcer

[Alan de Enfield]

The middle pic of mine shows a Enforcer THAT HAS HAD ITS numbers removed !!
Several are like like from a particular Police force. The number was still on the butt (inside the socket) I have seen at least 2 like this. !

Now - theres a strange twist in the tale !
Cannot begin to guess why they would want to remove the serial numbers

[Thunderbox]

Now - theres a strange twist in the tale !
Cannot begin to guess why they would want to remove the serial numbers

Be careful about any Enforcer that is not 100% standard or comes with a "story" that seeks to explain any "unique features".

Its possible that a Police force did erase markings - in order to disguise their ownership of a rifle that just might possibly be involved in a later crime by a civilian owner (shock tabloid headlines: "Police sell deadly high-powered sniper rifle to murdering gun nut", etc....).

I've also seen three "Enforcers" with these badly milled sections. Two of these had "Enforcer", etc, stamped inside the ovoids and were clearly just crude fakes, the third appeared to have erased markings, but was also not genuine. All three rifles were fitted with genuine Enforcer woodwork, of which many sets from scrapped rifles are/were floating around on the market.

Still, if you're prepared to pay big money for a less-than-standard Enforcer, then please PM me - I can make at least three magically appear, each with genuine woodwork and numbers.....

[Surpmil]

The bolt is obviously a post-war product. The left side has been 'linished' to remove the somewhat deeply stamped Long Branch markings.

The markings are misaligned which seems a bit odd, but I'm no expert on Enforcers...

Can't see the LB serial number, but presume it is a 44 or 45 action from the straight rather than concave shoulder on the lower left body side.

A bit odd that they would use it, but perhaps it just came through somehow and was plucked out later...for most of the people at RSAF(E) it was just a job probably, like most places.

LB No4(T)'s were converted to L42A1 despite their MkI* bodies, so not too odd perhaps?

Given the PH rear base fitted and wear it would seem to have been used at some point, whether as an Enforcer or a "lunchbox special".

If the bolt looks properly numbered to the action it might be one of the above, but if not, perhaps just a body/receiver used to practice on - engraving for example...

[spinecracker]

The middle pic of mine shows a Enforcer THAT HAS HAD ITS numbers removed !!
Several are like like from a particular Police force. The number was still on the butt (inside the socket) I have seen at least 2 like this. The first picture is early Enforcers. The "STORY" is these started out as ENVOYS , but had that removed and Enforcer added. Peter Laidler comments that all Lee Enfield actions/bodies were made in the 50's and are not later made. Just left overs from the Faz factory. Plausable when my 684 Enforcer has a british broad arrow and several stamps with 50/pb on it
The enforcer Alan has IS slightly different, each person will have done differently thou!

Do we have any sources that could corroborate Neal's story regarding Envoys being converted to Enforcers? it does not sound far-fetched, but something more concrete is needed. It wasn't THAT long ago. If we can get a definitive answer regarding the factory methods used to mark Enforcers, then we will have a better idea of how to spot fakes. Neal, was that middle picture of Enforcer #380? I know where it's magazine is, if you know where the Enforcer is.

[No4Mk1(T)]

Alen did you end up buying the action? What was the asking price?

[Alan de Enfield]

Do we have any sources that could corroborate Neal's story regarding Envoys being converted to Enforcers? it does not sound far-fetched, but something more concrete is needed. It wasn't THAT long ago. .

Sussex Police were unable to get enough Enforcers to meet their needs, they therefore purchased some Envoys, which the Foirce Armourer "converted into sniper rifles"
I do not know if he ground away the word "Envoy", or added "Enforcer", but I would doubt it, all he wanted was a 'Sniper Rifle'.

Alen did you end up buying the action? What was the asking price?

No I didnt - I'll PM you

[rgg_7]

You could check the barrel marking on the Enforcer that has the 2 line milling cut and tell us what they are. I can only suspect that the milling cuts were made to deface the receiver or rifle as it was being sold out of Police service. Can you measure the depth on the milling cut?

[Alan de Enfield]

You could check the barrel marking on the Enforcer that has the 2 line milling cut and tell us what they are. I can only suspect that the milling cuts were made to deface the receiver or rifle as it was being sold out of Police service. Can you measure the depth on the milling cut?

As part of the research into my proposed book(let) I have contacted the various Police Forces (under the Freedom of Information Act) requesting details of what Enforcers were held by them, serial numbers, how they were disposed of etc.

The common theme coming back is as follows - I quote :

"Provision of information under the Freedom of Information Act should not in any way jeopardise the Constabulary’s aims to effectively Police the community. When dealing with pre-planned and spontaneous firearms incidents, we would not wish for those criminals or potential terrorist to be supplied with a tactical advantage over the constabulary by the provision of detailed firearm resouce data.

The information could be used to clone Police weaponry should that individual have an extensive knowledge of firearms. Should a scenario arise that these armaments are then used in committing crimes, the health and wellbeing of the general public would be placed at risk, causing difficulties for any subsequent investigations"

The fact that they disposed of them 20 or 30 years ago seems to be irrelevant.

The majority of Police forces are telling me that they Guillotined the Enforcers under Police Force policy of not letting weapons into 'civilian hands'.

I suppose (and it is only supposition) that some forces who sold off their Enforcers may have scrubbed all details except a serial number (or maybe even made-up a new serial number) to avoid the peceived 'problem' of criminals using Police weapons.

[PrinzEugen]

I suppose the only surprise is that any were released at all! Must have been in the years before arse-covering in the authorities became all encompassing.

In my travels on the web looking for info on enforcers I've found a few similar requests:

http://www.suffolk.police.uk/NR/rdon...08/0/05396.pdf

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:Y...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

http://www.hampshire.police.uk/NR/rd.../HC0015607.pdf

You'll be unsurprised to know they don't add greatly to your enforcer knowledge.

[spinecracker]

You could check the barrel marking on the Enforcer that has the 2 line milling cut and tell us what they are. I can only suspect that the milling cuts were made to deface the receiver or rifle as it was being sold out of Police service. Can you measure the depth on the milling cut?

I will get a vernier and find that out as soon as I can

As I just mentioned on the other Enforcer thread that is running at the moment, the patent number on the barrel is identical to the patent number on Alan's #134 - text, size, and location. Apart from inspection and the patent marks, the other marks on the barrel include:

Knox form on top - an s with broad arrows either side pointing in, "CR 1470" followed by the Enfield symbol then "73 6"

Just in front of Knox form on top - "1"

Under barrel, about 2 inches from receiver - "FB358"

The bolt appears to be completely original and not messed with, but would they have sold the bolts off with the scrapped wood? It is a load bearing component, after all. When they use the guillotine, don't they just cut through the entire rifle without bothering to remove any parts? According to Alan's comments above regarding getting information from polices forces, I do not think we will ever get an answer.