Gunbroker Auction - Long Branch Enfield No4 Mk1 T

[Badger]

Gunbroker Auction - Long Branch Enfield No4 Mk1 T Sniper Mint Complete Scope Crate

Canadian Long Branch No4 Mk1 T sniper rifle complete with crate and all accessories. All correctly marked and matching. 1945 dated late war production. Rifle is near mint, stock, finish, and bore are basically flawless. Only damage to finish is slight flaking of the black finish on brass parts of the scope. And the only thing missing from the list on lid is the handkerchief for cleaning the scope lenses. This is a Canadian rifle with British scope, and is just as described in Skennertons book on British sniper rifles. Late war Canadian scopes could not pass British inspection, and were replaced with a British scope upon arrival in England. The scope number stamped on the stock wrist were crossed out, and the British scope number was stamped. This rifle is so marked. Has the leather scope covers, broad arrow marked and dated. Rare shooting sling, correctly marked. Scope can even has the leather carrying sling, and has matching rifle number painted on lid. Scope has red painted "W" indicating it has been waterproofed. The crate itself is in very good shape, with the expected scrapes and scuffs, the only real flaw is one leather handle is torn in two in the center. The "equipment list" inside the lid is very complete and ledgible. According to my references, this is one of approximately 600 T type rifles produced by long Branch. This is perhaps the best example you will ever see for sale. Please email for specific photos or questions prior to bidding.

[Information added 1/11/2010 9:32:24 PM]
To answer several questions, the scope body is marked: Tel Sgt No32 Mk3, next line is: OS 2039 A, next line is: AK&S No 22988, and next a 1945 with a broad arrow below that. The scope number is stamped on top of wrist of the stock, and both the rifle and scope number is on a paper tag pasted inside the scope case lid.

[Information added 1/16/2010 9:06:58 AM]
I have had many questions about the condition of the wood. Other than two small handling marks, it surely looks the same as the day they made it in 1945. One mark is visible in the photos just above the front left side of the magazine. It's a shallow round dent the diameter of a pencil. The other is a small crease about 3/8" long on the top of the forearm near the front. Both were present when I purchased the rifle years ago. I would say the overall finish of the rifle is better than 95%. Stock markings include a small maltese cross, broad arrow, large "N" and a small "B" on the bottom front of the forearm. There is a small "B" over a "32", a broad arrow, and a 14C inside an oval just behind the triggerguard, and a large "N" on the top of the butt.

[Information added 1/25/2010 6:44:08 PM]
Bids are getting very close to the reserve, this is as nice an example as you'll ever find, I probably won't relist it.....

[Information added 1/25/2010 6:52:56 PM]
The reserve is $4000, I don't normally disclose that, but since it's so close....


SOLD for $4,000 U.S.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Baal]

Is that a correct sniper sling? Or is it a civilian target rifle sling? I haven't seen one like that before.

[RJW NZ]

Lessee, got lotto?
Loverly bit of kit...

[Surpmil]

[size=2][url="http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=153612763"]This is a Canadian rifle with British scope, and is just as described in Skennertons book on British sniper rifles. Late war Canadian scopes could not pass British inspection, and were replaced with a British scope upon arrival in England. The scope number stamped on the stock wrist were crossed out, and the British scope number was stamped. This rifle is so marked.

Obvious bunk; otherwise the bracket would not have been replaced, being the part specifically mated to the rifle.

As for REL scopes not passing inspection, a number survived to be converted to L1A1 when the rifles were converted to L42A1, so more bunk there I'd say.

And you know where I got that info!

Even at this distance you see the number on the bracket doesn't match.

[spinecracker]

So you are saying that this is a cobbled-together sniper? If that is the case, then what parts are authentic/reproduction in your eyes? If the person selling this rifle is a Milsurps member, I am not meaning to cause any offense or disrespect, but a spirited discussion regarding the merits and/or detractors of such a rifle would be in order, especially as we, as collectors/shooters, are engaged in saving as many of these rifles in all their forms as best we can.

[Beerhunter]

Obvious bunk; otherwise the bracket would not have been replaced, being the part specifically mated to the rifle.

Have I missed the bit where the vendor claims that the scope bracket was replaced? I though that he/she just said that the scope has been replaced.

[Surpmil]

The bracket is a British-made "JG" bracket, not a Canadian-made one.

It IS possible that the rifle simply lost its REL scope and mount at some point and a British-made Mk3 and bracket replaced it. Could have happened in any number of countries too. Unfortunately, from what I can see, it still has another rifle number on the bracket X/W(?)3795- (I can't be certain, but that's what it looks like), so I doubt from what Peter has told us of REME practices that it passed through their hands. Might another NATO country have done the force-match? Possibly, but why would they then not restrike the rifle serial number?

My conclusion: force-matched by a civilian - until we see better photos.

[Baal]

So you are saying that this is a cobbled-together sniper? If that is the case, then what parts are authentic/reproduction in your eyes? If the person selling this rifle is a Milsurps member, I am not meaning to cause any offense or disrespect, but a spirited discussion regarding the merits and/or detractors of such a rifle would be in order, especially as we, as collectors/shooters, are engaged in saving as many of these rifles in all their forms as best we can.

I agree Spinecracker. I have lots to learn from the folks here and would love to hear some more educated opinions on this rifle.

I find it interesting that the seller didn't post any close ups of the action as any serious buyer is going to want to see this in detail.

[spinecracker]

I'm just wondering if the separate major components are real, not reproduction, sniper components (rifle, scope, scope mount, transit box) that someone has put together to make a sniper, then perhaps it would be reasonable to purchase it and then sell the parts as necessary - could reap more than you paid.

[Terry Hawker]

While I am the first to admit, that, as is the case with all researchers, more than once information has come to light that tends to contradict something Ian has written previously, but, I think, it is only fair to ensure the man is quoted correctly.

Is this rifle really "...just as described in Skennerton's book on British sniper rifles."? Owning every volume Skennerton has ever written on British arms, I realize I may have just missed it somewhere in the vast quantity of information therein, but, try as I might, I can find no reference to the proposition that, "Late war Canadian scopes could not pass British inspection, and were replaced with a British scope on arrival in England."

What I did find is a paragraph on page 293 of "The Lee-Enfield Story", and repeated again on page 315 of "The Lee-Enfield", that states:

"Many Long Branch sniper rifles and REL scopes were purchased by Britain during the war and so a "mix-n-match" situation may be encountered with some of the Canadian rifles, scopes and parts from the British ordnance system, due to the various armourer and workshop repairs and replacements and F.T.R. programs. Canadian issue sniper rifles, though, were generally not as widely issued and the chief "foreign parts" encountered are usually only some Stevens-Savage backsights."

(Incidentally, that last sentence answers a previous thread's question about the originality of Savage rear sights on Long Branch snipers.)

The above quote of Skennerton's does give some credence to the possibility that the rifle offered for sale may be legitimate, but, as has been mentioned, better photographs would be required before any confirmation of originality can be made.

Not so the seller's assertion that late war Canadian scopes couldn't pass British inspection...As Surpmil says, "obvious bunk". Oddly enough, my all-matching, unissued, British contract, 1945 Long Branch No. 4 Mk I* (T), serial number 90L8086, still wears its original, serial number 69-C, R.E.L., No. 32 Mk 3 scope, so obviously they did pass British inspection and were not removed on arrival in England.

Yes, there is a chance the rifle in question may be authentic, but, the fact that the seller is either drastically ill-informed, or worse, perhaps making up his own "facts", would certainly make me take a long hard look before parting with any cash.

Happy hunting,

Terry