Barrel Band on E-Bay

[shadycon]

[QUOTE=phillydude;113485]davehh......its called an end mill, after the operation is done, hit it with brass black,,,,,,send me all of your type 3's, and i will send you back all "ORIGINAL" TYPE 2'S[/QUOTE
Another question;How do you get that type of a pattern from an end mill.Anything that I have seen milled leaves swirl marks from the cutting edges. I don't see that type of marks. To me it looks like a piece of sheet steel that has been sheared. Please correct me if I am wrong, but explain to me how to get that type of pattern with an end mill.

[DaveHH]

I actually own a genuine type 2 band. It is on my original Winchester. I will look and either tell you; you are full of it or apologize. Keep tuned.

[usgicollector]

I can say that we are entitled to your opinions and we have two sides on this one. I still believe it is real. I have the band in my hands and everyone else, both those who believe it is real and those who do not, don't. I bought this band on a carbine from the CMP. It was either a Greek or Italian return not an Austrian Bavarian with their bands that were cut down. At the time I bought it I did not have a front sight puller. So a friend of mine pulled it for me. It has stayed loose at my home ever sense. If it was machined and made to look sheared with a brass drift, I ask one question. Why in the chain of ownership prior to my ownership would someone from any of the previous owners go to all of the effort to make it look like an original type 2 band from a type 3? Inland, U.S. Army Ordnance, CMP, or the Greek or Italian armies would have no interest it doing that. You can see by the rust on the swivel, wear around the screw, and discoloring on the top of the band it has not been refinished, so how would machining marks be hidden without refinishing. I tried an experiment with it by clamping it in a vice and using radius gauges on the inside of the band. With it in a vice with sufficient clamping pressure to machine you do not get a true radius on the inside of the band. So if you machined it, you would leave tooling marks on the underside of the top part of the band to cut off the entire inner band. There are no marls there. Also, if you peened machining marks out you would get a lip protruding out the bottom inner part of the band. This could be removed, but once again you would leave either file or stoning marks that would need to be covered up with refinishing. And judging by the age and condition of the finish on various parts of the band that would have had been done long ago while in possession of one of the above mentioned (Inland or one of the militaries) and why would have they just not changed out the part.

In closing, In WAR BABY! Larry Ruth states he still sees things that defy logic. So don't be so quick to judge if it falls out of line what it thought to be correct. I am not in the humping business just selling some of my extra stuff that I thought would bring the most cash to fund a new purchase.
I am sure if you think it is fake this does not change your mind, but it in my opinion is some of the reasons I believe it is real.
No grudges or Hard feelings. It is nice to see that there is still life on these boards beyond asking value and "born on dates".
Take Care,
Dave

[BrianQ]

I actually own a genuine type 2 band. It is on my original Winchester. I will look and either tell you; you are full of it or apologize. Keep tuned.

You can't compare the manufacturing techniques used by one manufacturer to determine authenticity of another's product.

Knape & Vogt was one of the type II barrel band manufacturers known to not radius the inner band very well, sometimes not at all. There is a subtle difference between Knape & Vogt type II and type III bands and from the pictures this one looks 100% legit for a type II.

Something else that was disproven was the misconception that the inner band had to be recessed on a legit type II band and if the inner band was flush or protruded from under the outer portion it was a cut down.

[frankderrico]

My thoughts were why would any military try to make it look like a type II? If they didn't want the bayo lug they would just saw it off. On another note Rusty's Type II may be the real thing also, according to BrianQ. Good thread, thanks for getting it going Rusty. I'm out to the "Hideout" to do a couple of CC DATA SHEETS.....Frank

[BrianQ]

Not to hijack the thread but what is the consensus on this one, legit type II or cut down type III?

[frankderrico]

I magged it up to 150% and it looks like usgicollectors type II KI. Having the set back and given what you said about Knape & Vogt, I'm going to say legit type II. The other thing to consider is that if someone was going to go to the extreme of doing the set back on the barrel band, why not also do the radius. That would be the easy part.....Frank

[Rob13]

Odd that a complete different group of people bid on the recent other T2 band that was on eBay a couple weeks back. One other did bid on both, maybe another. Not sure, I think eBay changes what we can see of the IDs. eBay took the fun out of analysis of bidders for the most part.eBay.com Item Bid History

[DaveHH]

This saves me having to take it apart. I was wondering if they would be different as the subtle differences that identify a Winchester could be a factor.
I wondered why the Army, Greeks or whomever, would cut a 3 down to a 2? This kind of stuff really shows how much opinions matter.
Again, thanks

[Rob13]

Hard to figure why,when they made the die to stamp the inner band, that they would have made some of the corners rounded and not the front end.
And then some other makers rounded them all. Anybody know if there are drawings around that would give a clue as to how they were all suppose to make them?