Greek Return Garand Collectability ?

[ap3572001]

Agreeing with Bodyman, when I was looking for my first Garand, I was torn between an excellent shooter with wood and finish in excellent condition and an historical rifle. Budget was a factor, so the two mindsets competing within me were
1. desiring to see what a young enlistee drew from the armory in WWII (which were often brand new rifles), and
2. wanting a rifle that actually fought some of those battles (these days they are often worn, rebuilt, re-parked, with mixed parts).

What does that mean? There are folks out there who want good-looking, reasonably inexpensive rifles and are willing to pay a little premium to get one and there are the more hard-core collectors. The future of collectability, aka resale value, rides in the market of potential buyers at any given moment.

Bob

Bob. There are several Garand markets. At least where I live... ( SF Bay Area). 1). There are TRUE collectors of ORIGINAL or CORRECT guns. They never shoot them , don't really care how they shoot. As long as they are really CORRECT. 2). There are people who like to own Garands that were tunned and /or rebuild by KNOWN Garand shops. Milltech, Deans etc. They really want the best shooting and looking Garand. They DO NOT care about matching parts and refinishing. They want accuracy and looks. Some of those folks spend MORE on their guns than collectors do.
3). There are others who want a Garand that is only as original as it would have been issued to a soldier.( a typical service grade CMP gun). 4). There are some who view a Garand as a WEAPON. Those folks put function and function only as the most important.

The same way as some people collect original 1911's and some collect 1911's tunned by Bob Chow, Clark Sr, Jim Hoag. Both are collectors.

[coppertales]

I got one of the Greek M1D rifles. It is a like new rifle with zero wear anywhere on the park inside or out. It shoot like a dream. My collector is a H&R I bought from the CMP around 10 years ago after a two year wait. I also have a Select grade which is like a new rifle fresh from rebuild. I have been very satisfied with the rifles the CMP has sent me. The M1D has a black receiver and trigger group and the rest is GI park. I always get comments from the range bubbas that my rifles are not what I say they are. Who cares what they say. I just reply that they can buy them from me at the going CMP rate then bitch at the CMP that the CMP lied on their paperwork that came with the rifles. These rifles are mine and I love them.....chris3

[ap3572001]

Many , many people today, are MOSTLY interested how their Garands look and shoot. Top of the line Match bulid Garands form known shops can run over 2000.00 . Which is WAY more than a correct 1950's rifle.

They are just different.

[togor]

Has my Greek return got what's considered the "black" parkerizing?

That looks USGI to me. The Greek process is a bluing, not a parkerizing, and they dunk them in a tank without doing disassembly on small parts. I just cleaned up a HRA SG that had the original barrel in good condition that had received the greek dunk. Here were a couple of clues:

1) breech was blued, not in the white as it came from HRA

2) clip latch pin was kind of goobered up in the 3 1/2" length of run inside the clip latch (bluing solution tends to accumulate in there). Required a number of doses of penetrating oil + heating to free up the pin

3) features of the T105E1 sight that are normally left in the white were not so much in this case. It appears the greeks do not remove sights before the dunk (and you would not really expect them to anyway)

I think also the op rod catch, follower, bullet guide and follower arm were left on the rifle as well, but it is harder to say with those parts. I think they removed the wood because the front handguard liner metal was not dark, and the lower band was not refinished. It showed signs of carelessness in stock removal and was pinned in a somewhat slipshod manner with a solid pin that was not fully seated. I do not believe that on their worst day the CMP would do such a thing.

This rifle had a refinished SA op rod, but a late SA bolt (A15) that had not been dunked. The stock was HRA with a 3/8" DAS, and an all-HRA trigger group that also had not been refinished. I'm guessing that if they refinished bolts they did not strip them first, and so one would have to carefully inspect all moving parts on the bolt for crud.

Overall the rifle is pretty solid. I like the slimmer profile of the early HRA stocks. The gas cylinder and op rod piston measure up to have a lot of life left, so I'd rate it mechanically above average for a SG, with the negative of the greek bluing. But as I was more interested in function and wear than finish in this case, I'm happy with the mail order result.

[ltcboy]

I remember when people thought that the Danish Garands were "substandard". Those rifle turned out to be of great quality. Guys would scoff at the VAR barrels, now as we know, they are great shooters. I think the Greeks will have their place in collectability.


MIke

[Devil Dog]

For the record can we stop calling the black Greek enamel "Greek Park". One would thing based on most of the US martial arms most of us have owned/inspected some could tell the difference between paint and parkerizing.

I have seen a lot of Greek returns. Both M1's and '03's but I have never seen what has been discussed as "paint" or "enamel". True, the finish is thicker than the Parkerizing we are acustomed to seeing, but, the ones I have inspected have what I believe to be Parkerizing. I'm not saying there are no painted Greek returns...just that I haven't seen any

[DaveN]

for a m1 to be perfect is it unissued? CMP has sent me ww 2 receivered m 1s
and to me for the money....and history they are hard to beat. to look at a 6
didgit mixmaster and know it could have been in a few battles, saved a life or lives of a bunch of our heros or been in the hands of one who gave all, that is what collecting such a fine war rifle is all about. my opinion.

[RyanV]

Does anybody else think that with so many really really nice Post war HRA and Springfields being put out by the CMP the last few years, and continuing with the new batch of Greeks, that it will effectively lower the market value of these for the foreseeable future?

[Devil Dog]

Naw... we just keep buying them. I believe the CMP sets the market price since nobody sells more than they do. When you see the CMP lower their Garand price, you will probally see the market price drop accordenly. However, the CMP is not lowering their price...it is raising it. An example you can watch now is the M82 Kimber price. The CMP has cut that price by 33% on the so-called "Rusty" Kimbers. It has to affect the market price on 82's. I sold a perfect M82 about 6 months ago for $525. at a show. I would bet I couldn't get that price now.

[byronroland]

I am new to the forum and have one of these, or at least I think I do. It is an M1D and has the very, very shiny black finish. I was thinking it might have been duo black or something like it almost looks like black paint. Way to shiny for phosphate is it not? I am going to study more using a microscope, but hard for me to think manganese phosphate can be made that shiny a black? And phosphate is a growth of crystals on the surface, notice how non oiled phosphate has little glints of reflection in it when in direct sunlight. Try this on a new old stock part that you know is phosphate, they are there and little sparks are all over the place.

Sure would like some education on this from a real expert? Does anyone know first hand what the Greeks put on these?

And, mine has an absolute horrible front hand guard. Way oversize and some sort of wood I have not seen. Stock is very rough.

I am pleased with the piece and cleaning and getting ready to take it out once I check headspace and all.

Any further education is welcomed.

I will take some pictures of the rifle now in its torn down state and again once rebuilt and post.